Independence - how would you vote?

[wingsoverperthshire]

Using a single debate of a statistically insignificant and unrepresentative sample in a non-comparable debate at a University, taking a poll rating from the participating audience rather than the passive audience (those watching it not physically live in the hall with a non-comparable match-up. Wholly irrelevant and not supporting evidence.

This is the thing though. You still haven't proved this and even if you did it wouldn't be relevant. This is an election on a Scottish basis (Cleggmania didn't really even happen here). There was no discernible link between the Scottish Parliament debates and the result (the polls were not accelerated or slowed or changed in their direction of travel by Salmond's debates with Gray, Tavish and Goldie). There is plenty evidence to suggest that the eventual result in the UK election saw the TV bounce COMPLETELY negated by media print and news and other factors. Cleggmania rose and fell before a single vote was cast. Where is your evidence that the Yes campaign and EckTV will eliminate polling bust but not polling boom?

...and we're back to hypothetical situations.

Might have been best if you engaged rather than resorting to lawyer type. Muddying the waters in the face, to cover up the fact you've nothing but boundless energy to hit the keyboard and a lust for paragraphs.

I'm bored, and out.

[wingsoverperthshire]

The difference is this referendum is far more important than simply picking your MP for the next half-decade. This is a referendum to actually create a new country. People are going to be a lot more hesitant about simply swaying their vote.

A new country.

I've not heard this one. Go-on make your point.

[thepundit]

wrong

it will be sterling

next question

You'll be outside the Sterling zone and you don't even know what the requirements will be to join the EU.

[~~~]

You'll be outside the Sterling zone and you don't even know what the requirements will be to join the EU.

We're already part of the EU we won't be kicked out of it, even Michael Moore believes this since he got the bullet from the Scotland Office

Last time I checked Sterling is as much Scotland currency as the rest of the UK

[Davi3j]

You'll be outside the Sterling zone and you don't even know what the requirements will be to join the EU.

we are already in the EU

eta, can you elaborate on how we will be outside this "Sterling zone" if we are, umm, using sterling?

[~~~]

I'll use an old favourite saying you hear Rangers supports

"Check your passport"

I have, it says European Union at the very top. That won't change in an Indy Scotland

Although it might change if the right wing mutters get their way in a few year when Westminster holds the referendum

[thepundit]

we are already in the EU

can you elaborate on how we will be outside this "Sterling zone" if we are, umm, using sterling?

You won't be in the EU if you gain independence and will have to re-apply just like any other country. Surely you knew this?

And you'll be outside the Sterling zone as you won't be in the UK. A requirement to join the EU will likely include joining the Euro anyway.

You'll also only have around 2.5% worth of power inside the EU. Effectively voiceless. Independent? Hardly.

[Davi3j]

You won't be in the EU if you gain independence and will have to re-apply just like any other country. Surely you knew this?

And you'll be outside the Sterling zone as you won't be in the UK. A requirement to join the EU will likely include joining the Euro anyway.

You'll also only have around 2.5% worth of power inside the EU. Effectively voiceless. Independent? Hardly.

lolwut

You won't be in the EU if you gain independence

and in the same paragraph

You'll also only have around 2.5% worth of power inside the EU.

#fail

[Liam.]

1 You won't be in the EU if you gain independence and will have to re-apply just like any other country. Surely you knew this?

2 And you'll be outside the Sterling zone as you won't be in the UK. A requirement to join the EU will likely include joining the Euro anyway.

3 You'll also only have around 2.5% worth of power inside the EU. Effectively voiceless. Independent? Hardly.

1 This has been debunked several times over. Scotland would negotiate from within the EU (confirmed by several MEPs) and not only is there no credible reason we would be refused, there is no mechanism for throwing a country out of the EU.

2 As Rico has said, the pound is as much Scotlands currency as the rUK. If Westminster refuses to share the assets, they cannot expect us to take on the liabilities. Also, it would be impossible for Scotland to immediately join the Euro, we do not and can not fulfil the requirements.

3. Currently the only voice we have is filtered through Westminster, who have shown they view Scottish interests as "expendable". 2.5% is an increase as we currently have zero voice.

NEXT.

[Baxter Parp]

No.

Well done to the UK Gov for saving Grangemouth. Credit to Salmond for scrambling £9m together, though. I'm sure it really scraped the surface so hat off to him for that.

http://iainmacwhirter.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/sunday-herald-column-labour-the-first-casualty-of-grangemouth-debacle/

You should probably read this. Salmond was the main catalyst for Grangemouth's reprieve.

[Baxter Parp]

Why the f**k would I want to speak to members of the public? The public are morons.

...said a member of the public.

[DeeGas]

The £ is for the UK,if Scotland leave is is no longer their money.

The UK cannot stop anyone using the £,so Scotland can,but it is not theirs.

Rab reckons this will be no problem for Scotland.

If you believe this,then you'll believe anything.

Still,as long as Rab says so.

[Baxter Parp]

Who are you talking about?

"The union supporting majority"

[Baxter Parp]

You'll be outside the Sterling zone and you don't even know what the requirements will be to join the EU.

What sterling zone is this? The requirements to join the EU are well known and Scotland complies with all of them.

[Baxter Parp]

You'll also only have around 2.5% worth of power inside the EU. Effectively voiceless. Independent? Hardly.

Lithuania, a country of 3m people, has 13 MEPs, Scotland has 6. If anything we can only increase our voice in the EU.

[thepundit]

the pound is as much Scotlands currency as the rUK. If Westminster refuses to share the assets, they cannot expect us to take on the liabilities.

The debt will be divided, of that there is no doubt. How Scotland will deal with that is another unanswered question.

As for the pound being "as much Scotlands", this is wrong, it belongs to the UK of which Scotland would not be part of.

"The UK pound only exists through acts of the UK parliament. No legal or institutional framework exists for the sharing of the pound with another country. And it would require a very difficult and uncertain negotiation, with no guarantee in advance that an acceptable agreement could be reached for both the parties.

When confronted with this truth, the fall-back position of the Nationalists is to claim that Scotland could use the pound informally, without a central bank, a lender of last resort or any control over the monetary framework. It shouldnt have to be said, but the currency arrangements followed by economies like Kosovo, Panama or Montenegro are too big a risk for a complex economy like Scotlands. This has rightly been dismissed by Alex Salmonds own economic advisers.

Without the backing of the Bank of England, large financial institutions such as banks or insurance companies would not base themselves in Scotland. In the real world, an independent Scotland could only use the UK pound if a deal could be struck with the rest of the UK.

For a country like Scotland, the choice between the economic costs of a separate currency or the loss of sovereignty as economic policy interest rates, budget rules and financial regulation are set by a foreign country is a poor one." - Ed Balls.

[Liam.]

1 The debt will be divided, of that there is no doubt. How Scotland will deal with that is another unanswered question.

As for the pound being "as much Scotlands", this is wrong, it belongs to the UK of which Scotland would not be part of.

2 "The UK pound only exists through acts of the UK parliament. No legal or institutional framework exists for the sharing of the pound with another country. And it would require a very difficult and uncertain negotiation, with no guarantee in advance that an acceptable agreement could be reached for both the parties.

3 When confronted with this truth, the fall-back position of the Nationalists is to claim that Scotland could use the pound informally, without a central bank, a lender of last resort or any control over the monetary framework. It shouldnt have to be said, but the currency arrangements followed by economies like Kosovo, Panama or Montenegro are too big a risk for a complex economy like Scotlands. This has rightly been dismissed by Alex Salmonds own economic advisers.

4 Without the backing of the Bank of England, large financial institutions such as banks or insurance companies would not base themselves in Scotland. In the real world, an independent Scotland could only use the UK pound if a deal could be struck with the rest of the UK.

5 For a country like Scotland, the choice between the economic costs of a separate currency or the loss of sovereignty as economic policy interest rates, budget rules and financial regulation are set by a foreign country is a poor one." - Ed Balls.

1 I thought I'd been clear in my first post: no access to assets (like the pound) means no responsibility for debt. By your logic, the debt is the UKs which Scotland will no longer be part of. There is a precedent with the dissolution of the USSR, where Russia inherited all of the assets and all of the debt.

2 Scotland is part of the UK through acts of parliament. Acts will need to be brought forward to facilitate our exit, one of these acts will alter the nature of the pound.

3 I never said anything about using the pound informally, if we are forced to use the pound informally it'll be for a short period of time while we establish a new currency. If this is the case, we won't be liable for any of the national debt. Currency really is a win-win situation for Independence.

4 Will Scottish people not need banks or insurance in the case of independence? We already have our own unique legal system, so this wouldn't be a new barrier to cross border trade.

5 A unionist saying we should stay in the union. What's your point?

[Liam.]

Wondering if I should get a head start and debunk the bank bail out myth now, or wait for thepundit to bring it up.

[Baxter Parp]

Wondering if I should get a head start and debunk the bank bail out myth now, or wait for thepundit to bring it up.

He's bound to google it at some point.

[DeeGas]

If Scotland goes independent,then I hope the UK do everything within its power to force Scotland into finding a different currency than our £.

So groat or € it is.

Rab and Co say this will cause no problem (looking forward to the U-turn on this particular theory a la € to £) and so Scottish business won't be concerned at all with their groat or €.