Independence - how would you vote?

[Lambie's Pigeon Feed]

Is it just me or has their been less of a challenge to all the Better Together bullshit recently? I know there's a fine line between not getting bogged down like they want and countering the deception but there's been a lot of scaremongering that has gone unchallenged.

And whilst those who know the stuff can laugh at it on here that doesn't take the Yes campaign anywhere amongst the wider public who take all/most of it at face value.

Maybe this is just a lull between the campaigns kicking off and the real debates starting. I hope the Yes campaign engage in as many debates on TV as possible and show the unionists up for what they are. The Sturge did a very good job against Moore but even that was a long tine ago.

[archie guevara]

To save you going to a BT meeting, someone has filmed the one in Bathgate the other night. See if you can spot the scary bits and a prize for anyone who spots the "positive case for the Union".

PS, I give it three hours before BT get this taken down from YouTube on some specious premise.

[Reynard]

Is it just me or has their been less of a challenge to all the Better Together bullshit recently? I know there's a fine line between not getting bogged down like they want and countering the deception but there's been a lot of scaremongering that has gone unchallenged.

And whilst those who know the stuff can laugh at it on here that doesn't take the Yes campaign anywhere amongst the wider public who take all/most of it at face value.

Maybe this is just a lull between the campaigns kicking off and the real debates starting. I hope the Yes campaign engage in as many debates on TV as possible and show the unionists up for what they are. The Sturge did a very good job against Moore but even that was a long tine ago.

I take it you missed the launch of the Yes Scotland campaign then? Remember the afternoon when Salmond brought the group together, people like Patrick Harvie and that Scottish socialist Sheridan splinter group fool, that old lefty shite Caravan and a variety of people from showbusiness?

Most of those folk have subsequently been ditched so that the small clique at the top of the SNP can continue to run the campaign (and then tell idiots that i"t husnae really stertet yut" because its still tanking in the polls) and place that cadaver sock puppet and knight of the realm Blair Whatsisname "in charge" and hopefully copping all the flack when Yes loses catasrophically, as every poll indicates.

But yeah, we all wait with bated breath on the yes campaign starting up "properly", it will be interesting to see if there is just more baseless assertion or whether they actually have a clue what they are doing.

[renton]

Is it just me or has their been less of a challenge to all the Better Together bullshit recently? I know there's a fine line between not getting bogged down like they want and countering the deception but there's been a lot of scaremongering that has gone unchallenged.

And whilst those who know the stuff can laugh at it on here that doesn't take the Yes campaign anywhere amongst the wider public who take all/most of it at face value.

Maybe this is just a lull between the campaigns kicking off and the real debates starting. I hope the Yes campaign engage in as many debates on TV as possible and show the unionists up for what they are. The Sturge did a very good job against Moore but even that was a long tine ago.

It's the fact that BT are now at the point of simply rehashing the same thigns over and over: yesterday's 'fact' about the Royal navy shipyards... it's been done to death.

It's also a wee bit hard to refute and not look callous. Yes Scotland can point out that the yards can compete for the jobs post indy as much as they like, but the MoD will puff and puff about not building warships 'abroad' (at least until there is a yes vote and two thrids of the UKs ship building cpaacity is 'abroad' and we'll see how they change thier tune)

However, the worst of it is, is that even in the event of a No vote, there will be job cuts. The navy is building less ships that last longer, ergo less ship builders required.BAE have previously tried to sell their ship building arm on several occasions. I fear that people would vote no to protect a set of jobs that even within the Union will shrink to insignificance ove rthe next generation anyway.

[Colkitto]

Blair McDougall increasingly becoming a total liability. When you have his partner Darling now in full panic mode and making basic errors, you can see things not looking good at Better Together...

[renton]

Blair McDougall increasingly becoming a total liability. When you have his partner Darling now in full panic mode and making basic errors, you can see things not looking good at Better Together...

McDougall seems like the prototype for the apparatchik party hack.

[archie guevara]

Is it just me or has their been less of a challenge to all the Better Together bullshit recently? I know there's a fine line between not getting bogged down like they want and countering the deception but there's been a lot of scaremongering that has gone unchallenged.

And whilst those who know the stuff can laugh at it on here that doesn't take the Yes campaign anywhere amongst the wider public who take all/most of it at face value.

Maybe this is just a lull between the campaigns kicking off and the real debates starting. I hope the Yes campaign engage in as many debates on TV as possible and show the unionists up for what they are. The Sturge did a very good job against Moore but even that was a long tine ago.

The BT campaign is based solely on fear and the "fog of war". Guerilla tactics of harrying and skirmishing. You only need to look on here to see how much time some folk spend answering the posts from the utterly risible DeeGas to see what they are up to.

My suggestion is to get involved with Yes and you can then see what is actually happening on the ground rather than what folk believe. The Yes campaign is organised, much more numerous in terms of activists and is only growing in terms of momentum.

I've now been to meetings in four different Edinburgh constituencies. The dynamic at all of the meetings has been the same, with some long term activists from the three Yes parties slightly nervous at the level of freedom to plan and undertake campaigning, but with the unaffiliated all ready to get their sleeves rolled up and get stuck in. It's a potent mix. Take a look at Business for Scotland's website and you will maybe get the drift.

[Colkitto]

McDougall seems like the prototype for the apparatchik party hack.

There has to be concerns internally about him as he looks totally out his depth. Can he really get away with rehashing old scaremongering stories for another 13 months?

I will predict he will make a major howler before the referendum vote.

[xbl]

I take it you missed the launch of the Yes Scotland campaign then? Remember the afternoon when Salmond brought the group together, people like Patrick Harvie and that Scottish socialist Sheridan splinter group fool, that old lefty shite Caravan and a variety of people from showbusiness?

Most of those folk have subsequently been ditched so that the small clique at the top of the SNP can continue to run the campaign (and then tell idiots that i"t husnae really stertet yut" because its still tanking in the polls) and place that cadaver sock puppet and knight of the realm Blair Whatsisname "in charge" and hopefully copping all the flack when Yes loses catasrophically, as every poll indicates.

But yeah, we all wait with bated breath on the yes campaign starting up "properly", it will be interesting to see if there is just more baseless assertion or whether they actually have a clue what they are doing.

You can contribute to these discussions once you've demonstrated that you are capable of contributing in a worthwhile manner. So, pensions figures. Did you use old 2010 figures by mistake?

[Mr Rational]

My suggestion is to get involved with Yes and you can then see what is actually happening on the ground rather than what folk believe. The Yes campaign is organised, much more numerous in terms of activists and is only growing in terms of momentum.

I've now been to meetings in four different Edinburgh constituencies. The dynamic at all of the meetings has been the same, with some long term activists from the three Yes parties slightly nervous at the level of freedom to plan and undertake campaigning, but with the unaffiliated all ready to get their sleeves rolled up and get stuck in. It's a potent mix. Take a look at Business for Scotland's website and you will maybe get the drift.

This. From my side of the fence, this is like no other campaign I have been involved in, it's a wee bit chaotic if I'm honest, but it's meant to be this way and the support from 'walk ins' has been superb. People that have never been involved in politics are getting in touch, even a company that delivers leaflets for businesses are now delivering leaflets free of charge for us and the grass roots campaign is certainly growing in my part of the world.

More importantly though, the canvass has started. We know where the 'don't knows' are in our patch, they are being targeted as we speak...we get them and I'm certain we can do this.

So get involved, there's only one chance at this and it is winnable no matter what the fears, jeers and smears mob think....

[Mr Rational]

Ad-lib, what's yer take on greater autonomy for the islands if we win next year? I see there's a working group being started by the Scottish Government....

[Reynard]

After reading what our nationalist chums say. I'm now utterly CONVINCED there will be a yes vote.

[Lambie's Pigeon Feed]

 

The BT campaign is based solely on fear and the "fog of war". Guerilla tactics of harrying and skirmishing.  You only need to look on here to see how much time some folk spend answering the posts from the utterly risible DeeGas to see what they are up to.

 

My suggestion is to get involved with Yes and you can then see what is actually happening on the ground rather than what folk believe.  The Yes campaign is organised, much more numerous in terms of activists and is only growing in terms of momentum.

 

I've now been to meetings in four different Edinburgh constituencies.  The dynamic at all of the meetings has been the same, with some long term activists from the three Yes parties slightly nervous at the level of freedom to plan and undertake campaigning, but with the unaffiliated all ready to get their sleeves rolled up and get stuck in.  It's a potent mix.  Take a look at Business for Scotland's website and you will maybe get the drift.

I've been planning to get involved properly for a while. I was going to go to a meeting a couple of weeks ago but something came up.

My point wasn't about what is going on behind the scenes. Just that in the mainstream media the scare stories are getting less of a challenge than they were a couple of months ago.

Most people in the country aren't looking for the facts and they don't seem to be getting out as much recently. Like the most recent oil shite wasn't challenged in public as much as it should've been from what I saw of the reporting.

[xbl]

After reading what our nationalist chums say. I'm now utterly CONVINCED there will be a yes vote.

You mean like you were utterly convinced that your pension figures were right? Why are you unable to confirm if you used the 2010 statistics, despite claiming they were more up to date than my 2012 link I provided?

[Mr Rational]

Mock away Reynard, it is winnable but only with hard work.

But feel free to sneer all you like if it makes you feel better.

[Ric]

I have now made a decision on this, previously I was of the mindset that psychologically I can understand the desire for Scotland to be independent but the financial outlay and possible ramifications would not benefit Scotland at this time. However as more and more desperate attacks come from London, from the leaking of the Faslane thing to the roaming charges and claims about oil running out in less than 5 years, coupled with the race to appease the xenophobic right wing nut jobs down South, it's clear to me that I simply don't wish to be part of the Union any more.

I may have been swayed by the Better Together campaign if they weren't so blatant about their tactics, and voted grudgingly in a pragmatic way "no", but I just can't swallow that any more.

I wonder if the No campaign realises just how badly they have shat themselves with their continued lies and petty attacks? The SNP seem to have played this pretty well by holding fire as it's not as if the Yes campaign doesn't have a serious set of problems to resolve.

[Reynard]

Mock away Reynard, it is winnable but only with hard work.

But feel free to sneer all you like if it makes you feel better.

Something better than half arsed assertions might do you a better turn.

[Mr Rational]

Tactics my boy, tactics.

All I'm saying.

[nifty shade of grey]

Better Together blatantly lying. Again. Desperate stuff, and doesn't bode well for the no campaign over the next 13 months if they're already at this level. http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-bullshit-files/

[xbl]

Something better than half arsed assertions might do you a better turn.

You mean evidence based facts? And where are yours?