North Korea ...again

[madwullie]

Bare arms

[Jacksgranda]

5 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Bare arms

Not much use against nuclear weapons, imho

[Fullerene]

24 minutes ago, TrebleTwenty said:

I think there is a lot of BS propoganda feed to the western masses from the western media about NK. Possibly some staged crap too, to justify a first strike. The yanks just love a war. Now not that saying NK is totally innocent, but can you blame them wanting to bare arms such as the ones they are trying too. Why is it that the yanks and many others are allowed nukes, but many others are not? Oh because Kim is apprently a nut job. We get told in the UK our nukes are a deterrent. So why can't Kim use his as a deterrent? After all his country has been invaded and his masses slaughtered in the past. Kim is on a leash from the Chinese, he won't nuke any c**t,  without the Chinese permission.

If anything, it will be the yanks who strike first. And if that happen's, any time soon. Sevco can say bye bye to ever winning the league again....

If you were talking about Iran or Iraq or Libya or Syria or even Cuba, I might be inclined to agree with you.  Not so with North Korea.

If North Korea really can count on the Chinese for protection then why do they need a deterrent at all?  Why not feed their people instead?

North Korea has a very short border with Russia, a longer border with supposed ally China and one of the most impenetrable borders of all with South Korea.

Who would invade North Korea and how?  Without the threat of these nuclear weapons - why would anyone bother?

[sjc]

3 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

If you were talking about Iran or Iraq or Libya or Syria or even Cuba, I might be inclined to agree with you.  Not so with North Korea.

If North Korea really can count on the Chinese for protection then why do they need a deterrent at all?  Why not feed their people instead?

North Korea has a very short border with Russia, a longer border with supposed ally China and one of the most impenetrable borders of all with South Korea.

Who would invade North Korea and how?  Without the threat of these nuclear weapons - why would anyone bother?

Self preservation for the totalitarian regime. 

[EdgarusQPFC]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

You reading comprehension really is atrocious. I explicitly said reunification, whilst being the stated aim of north has been seen as entirely unrealistic for decades since South Korea's own Great Leap Forward. The exact same position holds true for the south.

Everything you have just described has been the case for at least 30 years and probably longer.

China could end NK and the regime tomorrow without a bullet being fired. Here's a hint for you. Not everything China states in public is what they actually think. Condemning NK to the international community whilst quite liking being in control of a devil dug in their own scheme kind of suits them.

 

Except the difference is now is they definitely have nuclear weapons and at the very least the means to strike targets in asia, possibly the US.

[Lofarl]

Here's my bet. Nothing will happen. In a few years China will start to use dprk to make things like cheap dollar store type shit because the now wealthy Chinese don't want to make it. Eventually more and more shit will be made there and their manufacturing will grow and so to will their individual wealth. Basically they will replace China as the make cheap shit place. Eventually they will make better shit and ties with the south will develop. 30 years the north Korean tourists will have replaced the Chinese ones.

 

No one over there wants or would tolerate all out war. When Kim Jong IL died everyone over there was hoping his son would take steps towards peace...cause that's what everyone wants. So no...US won't do anything beyond talk tough. Dprk will get nukes but can't afford a real nuclear deterrent so really who cares. The only reason this is news is to put pressure on all the negotiations taking place on arms sales happening now in Japan and south Korea.

_________________

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

Except the difference is now is they definitely have nuclear weapons and at the very least the means to strike targets in asia, possibly the US.

We have no idea if they have the means to launch nuclear armed missiles anywhere. For all we know this latest bomb could have been the size of a house. All they need for their purposes is to make us think they might be able to.

[Cardinal Richelieu]

Racist language removed and poster warned. 

[KnightswoodBear]

2 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said:

Racist language removed and poster warned. 

Soon....

[Fullerene]

11 minutes ago, Lofarl said:

Here's my bet. Nothing will happen. In a few years China will start to use dprk to make things like cheap dollar store type shit because the now wealthy Chinese don't want to make it. Eventually more and more shit will be made there and their manufacturing will grow and so to will their individual wealth. Basically they will replace China as the make cheap shit place. Eventually they will make better shit and ties with the south will develop. 30 years the north Korean tourists will have replaced the Chinese ones.

 

No one over there wants or would tolerate all out war. When Kim Jong IL died everyone over there was hoping his son would take steps towards peace...cause that's what everyone wants. So no...US won't do anything beyond talk tough. Dprk will get nukes but can't afford a real nuclear deterrent so really who cares. The only reason this is news is to put pressure on all the negotiations taking place on arms sales happening now in Japan and south Korea.

_________________

If that were true, why wait a few years?  Why not do it now?  In fact, why did they not do it years ago?

The living standards in most of North Korea (outside of Pyongyang) are really poor - even compared to China and Russia.  Why would China want a few million North Koreans to make their stuff when they have a population of more than a billion people.  Even if China had fifty million millionaires that would still leave a lot of other Chinese to do the dirty work. 

[sjc]

22 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

If that were true, why wait a few years?  Why not do it now?  In fact, why did they not do it years ago?

The living standards in most of North Korea (outside of Pyongyang) are really poor - even compared to China and Russia.  Why would China want a few million North Koreans to make their stuff when they have a population of more than a billion people.  Even if China had fifty million millionaires that would still leave a lot of other Chinese to do the dirty work. 

Exactly. China has half a billion people living in feudalism. 

[Jacksgranda]

16 minutes ago, sjc said:

Exactly. China has half a billion people living in feudalism. 

Is that one of their provinces?

[williemillersmoustache]

My concern is with how Trump 'handled' the use of the MOAB in Afghanistan earlier in the year.

Clearly, like a child in a toyshop he wanted to have the biggest one and then no doubt when questioned about using a $16m weapon against goat farmers armed with AKs asked "well what's the point in having these things if we won't use em?"

Scary times ahead.

 

[TrebleTwenty]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

If you were talking about Iran or Iraq or Libya or Syria or even Cuba, I might be inclined to agree with you.  Not so with North Korea.

If North Korea really can count on the Chinese for protection then why do they need a deterrent at all?  Why not feed their people instead?

North Korea has a very short border with Russia, a longer border with supposed ally China and one of the most impenetrable borders of all with South Korea.

Who would invade North Korea and how?  Without the threat of these nuclear weapons - why would anyone bother?

Well if I'm not mistaken. Japan decided to go on a rampage around Asia many moons ago, which included slaughtering NK. There has been no peace agreement after the Korean wars? It just fizzled out. What's to say that they still think they are at war, due to this? They simply don't like Japan, SK and it's allies. And nor would I, if my country was slaughtered in the past by such nations in pretty much recent history. They have the right to defend them self's. To say NK are the bad guys in all of this is naive, I don't agree with many things that NK do in terms of the way they treat there citizens, but this really is not about that, the western media use that to make them more hated, but they do have a right to defend them self's, and if they see that as having the best bombs they can develop then whatever. They are getting help from somebody, probably the errr Chinese(is that better?)  The yanks are on the usual ego trip, fire and fury and all that nonsense. Do as we say, not as we do, and it's about money for them. War makes money, and they will quite happily drag us along with them.

I'm no expert, and nobody really knows why NK feel the need to have nukes and what they intend to do with them, it's all speculation, stirred up by the media. But it's not the North Koreans that concern me. It's the Americans....

[The OP]

The thing about the Chinese people is they are very inscrutable. I have tried to scrute them in the past but to no avail. It's quite hard therefore to know what they're planning. 

[MuckleMoo]

It's fairly obvious that North Korea are going baws oot to get there hands on a viable nuclear deterrent and, to be honest, I don't think there's much that can be done to dissuade them

More sanctions aren't going to stop them, the regime don't appear to have any qualms in watching the people starve to death.

Military action of any kind would likely open a whole Pandoras box of mayhem in the region with the potential that Japan, China, South Korea and Russia could all be sucked into any conflict.

If it was left to me I would deal with it the same way I deal with all my other problems. Ignore it and hope it goes away!

[Fullerene]

2 minutes ago, TrebleTwenty said:

Well if I'm not mistaken. Japan decided to go on a rampage around Asia many moons ago, which included slaughtering NK. There has been no peace agreement after the Korean wars? It just fizzled out. What's to say that they still think they are at war, due to this? They simply don't like Japan, SK and it's allies. And nor would I, if my country was slaughtered in the past by such nations in pretty much recent history. They have the right to defend them self's. To say NK are the bad guys in all of this is naive, I don't agree with many things that NK do in terms of the way they treat there citizens, but this really is not about that, the western media use that to make them more hated, but they do have a right to defend them self's, and if they see that as having the best bombs they can develop then whatever. They are getting help from somebody, probably the errr Chinese(is that better?)  The yanks are on the usual ego trip, fire and fury and all that nonsense. Do as we say, not as we do, and it's about money for them. War makes money, and they will quite happily drag us along with them.

I'm no expert, and nobody really knows why NK feel the need to have nukes and what they intend to do with them, it's all speculation, stirred up by the media. But it's not the North Koreans that concern me. It's the Americans....

The same could be said for South Korea but they are not seeking nuclear weapons.

Yes, the Japanese were total shits in the Second World War but back then it was not North Korea and South Korea - it was just Korea.

Where is the evidence that Japanese is likely to attack them?  Their postwar constitution prevents them adopting a military stance on anything.

Where is the evidence that China would not intervene if anyone threatened North Korea.

North Korea does concern me because it is a dictatorship and a paranoid one at that.

[Jacksgranda]

4 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

The same could be said for South Korea but they are not seeking nuclear weapons.

Yes, the Japanese were total shits in the Second World War but back then it was not North Korea and South Korea - it was just Korea.

Where is the evidence that Japanese is likely to attack them?  Their postwar constitution prevents them adopting a military stance on anything.

Where is the evidence that China would not intervene if anyone threatened North Korea.

North Korea does concern me because it is a dictatorship and a paranoid one at that.

The Japanese occupied Korea long before the Second World War

[Fullerene]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

The Japanese occupied Korea long before the Second World War

Yes, Korea - not North Korea and South Korea - just plain old Korea.

My point is why would modern Japan be seen as more of a threat to North Korea than South Korea. 

[Fullerene]

17 minutes ago, TrebleTwenty said:

Well if I'm not mistaken. Japan decided to go on a rampage around Asia many moons ago, which included slaughtering NK. There has been no peace agreement after the Korean wars? It just fizzled out. What's to say that they still think they are at war, due to this? They simply don't like Japan, SK and it's allies. And nor would I, if my country was slaughtered in the past by such nations in pretty much recent history. They have the right to defend them self's. To say NK are the bad guys in all of this is naive, I don't agree with many things that NK do in terms of the way they treat there citizens, but this really is not about that, the western media use that to make them more hated, but they do have a right to defend them self's, and if they see that as having the best bombs they can develop then whatever. They are getting help from somebody, probably the errr Chinese(is that better?)  The yanks are on the usual ego trip, fire and fury and all that nonsense. Do as we say, not as we do, and it's about money for them. War makes money, and they will quite happily drag us along with them.

I'm no expert, and nobody really knows why NK feel the need to have nukes and what they intend to do with them, it's all speculation, stirred up by the media. But it's not the North Koreans that concern me. It's the Americans....

This is the sort of thing those nasty Americans got up to against those lovely people in North Korea.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/19/world/clinton-approves-a-plan-to-give-aid-to-north-koreans.html?pagewanted=all&mcubz=1

Yet, the North Koreans would still describe the US has filthy capitalist pigs at the same time as accepting their help.  

Edited September 4, 2017 by Fullerene