North Korea ...again

[RandomGuy.]

I might be wrong, but right now I think they should be left to build their weapons, from what I can gather all they want is to have them when they enter talks so their regime can't be easily taken out afterwards.

 

Preventing them from building them would surely leave him feeling likes hes on the verge of being deposed, and a power hungry man with missiles and an apparent ability to use hydrogen bombs who has nothing to lose is a terrifying thought.

 

 

[chomp my root]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I might be wrong, but right now I think they should be left to build their weapons, from what I can gather all they want is to have them when they enter talks so their regime can't be easily taken out afterwards.

 

Preventing them from building them would surely leave him feeling likes hes on the verge of being deposed, and a power hungry man with missiles and an apparent ability to use hydrogen bombs who has nothing to lose is a terrifying thought.

 

 

While the 'great Satan' of America might seem to be NK's enemy, China are NK's biggest threat, if they wanted to be. China can shut the place down without firing a shot, they also have a larger nuclear arsenal. If the fat kid stopped trying to get so much attention the bigger kids would leave him to bully the North Koreans (for the greater good of course). Seeing as he has complete control of internal media I can only assume he's upset by the external stuff. Fat and huffy kid it seems.

[LargsTON]

Yeah but Trump being crazy is not enough to launch his missiles.  He needs the co-operation of a lot of people who agree that the missiles should be launched.

No he doesn't. He has advisors but that's all they are. If he orders a nuke to be fired at NK that order will be carried out.

[NotThePars]

On 05/09/2017 at 18:54, RandomGuy. said:

I might be wrong, but right now I think they should be left to build their weapons, from what I can gather all they want is to have them when they enter talks so their regime can't be easily taken out afterwards.

 

Preventing them from building them would surely leave him feeling likes hes on the verge of being deposed, and a power hungry man with missiles and an apparent ability to use hydrogen bombs who has nothing to lose is a terrifying thought.

 

 

 

The North Korean constitution, AFAIK, justifies the building of a nuclear bomb as being in the interests of self-defense. Obvs they are unlikely to explicitly state that they are building one for the purposes of wiping out anyone else but the reasoning is sound. North Korea has nothing to lose and everything to gain for its long term stability if it acquires a measure of MAD, even just with its neighbours.

[steve55]

1 hour ago, LargsTON said:

 

No he doesn't. He has advisors but that's all they are. If he orders a nuke to be fired at NK that order will be carried out.

 

Presidents have very little actual power.  Ever heard of the deep state.

[steve55]

Quote

2000: director of a company which wins $200m contract to sell nuclear reactors to North Korea 
2002: declares North Korea a terrorist state, part of the axis of evil and a target for regime change

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.

Mr Rumsfeld was a non-executive director of ABB, a European engineering giant based in Zurich, when it won a $200m (£125m) contract to provide the design and key components for the reactors. The current defence secretary sat on the board from 1990 to 2001, earning $190,000 a year. He left to join the Bush administration.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/may/09/nuclear.northkorea

Can people see what is going on now?  Think about it...

Edited September 7, 2017 by steve55

[LargsTON]

Presidents have very little actual power.  Ever heard of the deep state.

 

I listened to John LeBoutillier being interviewed on Talk Radio recently who confirmed Trump had the final call when pressed. I'm not going to pretend to be clued up on this subject as some on this thread are but I'll listen to the experts who certainly have more insight than yourself or me.

 

[steve55]

1 minute ago, LargsTON said:

 

I listened to John LeBoutillier being interviewed on Talk Radio recently who confirmed Trump has the final call when pressed. I'm not going to pretend to be clued up on this subject as some on this thread are but I'll listen to the experts who certainly have more insight than yourself or me.

 

Trump is trying to change things, but the swamp has him up to the neck.

JFK was the last president who tried to take on the ruling elite...

Trump is doing his best to try to keep election pledges, and that alone worries people in case it catches on with the voters.

[mjw]

Its already been posted on here that an America President can have nuclear weapons fired within minutes. They won't be running around seeking all sorts of peoples views if there are any headed their way.

[SlipperyP]

On 9/5/2017 at 10:25, Johnny van Axeldongen said:

North Korea 'moving missile towards west coast'

Greenock?

[Newbornbairn]

5 hours ago, steve55 said:

Can people see what is going on now?  Think about it...

It was Congress that blocked the sale of LWRs.

[Fullerene]

9 hours ago, LargsTON said:

 

 

 

No he doesn't. He has advisors but that's all they are. If he orders a nuke to be fired at NK that order will be carried out.

 

 

Imagine this:

Donald Trump is on the golf course and has just missed an easy putt.
He is so annoyed he vents his anger.
"You know I just getting totally fed with those North Koreans.  They are putting me off my game.  Let's just nuke 'em."

Under those circumstances - do you think it would actually happen?

Do you think he comes off the golf course later to scenes of missiles flying everywhere and say "Hey you guys - I didn't really mean it"?

I don't think much of Donald Trump but I suspect there are formal steps and safeguards involved.

By contrast, Kim Jong Um is a dictator and there is a possibility of being shot for questioning his orders.

Not sure is Kim is a golfer - although according to North Korean propaganda his grandfather was the greatest golfer that ever lived and once played a game where he got 18 hole-in-ones."

 

[LargsTON]

Imagine this:
Donald Trump is on the golf course and has just missed an easy putt.
He is so annoyed he vents his anger.
"You know I just getting totally fed with those North Koreans.  They are putting me off my game.  Let's just nuke 'em."
Under those circumstances - do you think it would actually happen?
Do you think he comes off the golf course later to scenes of missiles flying everywhere and say "Hey you guys - I didn't really mean it"?
I don't think much of Donald Trump but I suspect there are formal steps and safeguards involved.
By contrast, Kim Jong Um is a dictator and there is a possibility of being shot for questioning his orders.
Not sure is Kim is a golfer - although according to North Korean propaganda his grandfather was the greatest golfer that ever lived and once played a game where he got 18 hole-in-ones."
 

Hey, I'm only going by what I heard the expert say. Don't shoot (nuke) the messenger.

[welshbairn]

Officially nobody can get in the way of the President launching a nuclear attack. The reality might be different. Hopefully people wouldn't be worried about breaking the rules to prevent a nuclear war.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-nuclear-weapon-launch/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/01/no-one-can-stop-president-trump-from-using-nuclear-weapons-thats-by-design/?utm_term=.b30ea4e28f00

[welshbairn]

P.S. The 18 holes in one thing was a mistake by the propaganda department, it was actually a handful of holes in one with a round of 35 or so. His score card was marked with over or under par, so a bogey was read as a hole in one. The terrified clerk wrote the story and nobody was prepared to correct it.

[renton]

10 hours ago, LargsTON said:

 

 

No he doesn't. He has advisors but that's all they are. If he orders a nuke to be fired at NK that order will be carried out.

 

Yup, the President has sole authority under the US chain of command to order the launch of nuclear weapons, not just in a retaliatory fashion but as a first strike, at any time against any body. The actual physical launching of nuclear weapons by the sailors and airmen of the US armed forces requires verification under a two man rule (i.e. both commanding officer and his executive officer) to begin the launch process, but ultimately that process is only about authenticating the source of the order to launch, not debating the sanity of that source.

Ultimately, this is because under MAD theory, you're nuclear launch mechanisms have to work flawlessly, and two guys arguing the finer points of law as the missiles start to rain down is a wee bit frowned upon.

Of course, the flipside of that is the demands on the system to be 100% efficient, which is of course, not possible, and indeed the world has been saved on several occasions by the skepticism of men close to the nuclear frontlines. The political officer on a Russian nuclear submarine who refused to authorize the release of nuclear tipped Torpedoes when his colleagues believed they were being depth charged during the Cuban Missile crisis, the radar operator who refused to pass up his own chain of command the warning of a launch on his screens so convinced was he that the signal was spurious.

It's terrifying how much we've relied on the individual to do some thinking in a system that actively seeks to prevent such thoughts, to work.

Edited September 7, 2017 by renton

[steve55]

7 hours ago, mjw said:

Its already been posted on here that an America President can have nuclear weapons fired within minutes. They won't be running around seeking all sorts of peoples views if there are any headed their way.

Whenever there is world tensions you always had Bush, Obama and now Trump playing golf, anyone ever wonder WHY they always on the course?  Well they all have nuke bunkers in them, they just getting away from prime target:

 

 

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, renton said:

Of course, the flipside of that is the demands on the system to be 100% efficient, which is of course, not possible, and indeed the world has been saved on several occasions by the skepticism of men close to the nuclear frontlines. The political officer on a Russian nuclear submarine who refused to authorize the release of nuclear tipped Torpedoes when his colleagues believed they were being depth charged during the Cuban Missile crisis, the radar operator who refused to pass up his own chain of command the warning of a launch on his screens so convinced was he that the signal was spurious.

It's terrifying how much we've relied on the individual to do some thinking in a system that actively seeks to prevent such thoughts, to work.

Apparently this was true of Gorbachev as well.  On one occasion, they did a simulation to test the system and his response was: "No I won't press the button - not even for a test."

Of course, we have no way of knowing if that was actually true.

[Fullerene]

58 minutes ago, steve55 said:

Whenever there is world tensions you always had Bush, Obama and now Trump playing golf, anyone ever wonder WHY they always on the course?  Well they all have nuke bunkers in them, they just getting away from prime target:

 

 

I recall a story of Ronald Reagan being deep inside a mountain (Cheyenne, Wyoming or somewhere like that) where the US had their missile command.

Reagan said "Well I guess if the Russians start firing their missiles, we'll be pretty safe in here."

The answer he got was "No sir.  We would still be dead."  

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, steve55 said:

Whenever there is world tensions you always had Bush, Obama and now Trump playing golf, anyone ever wonder WHY they always on the course?  Well they all have nuke bunkers in them, they just getting away from prime target:

 

 

.. actually for the sake of world peace - they should ban golf!