Car advice

[strichener]

14 hours ago, Slacker said:

My PCP deal is running out in November and my MOT is due in October, so was going to hand it back a couple of months early. I know I can hand it back, but what I don't know is: will they ask/make me MOT it before I do?

If you hand it back early you will still have to pay the months that you are due.  All to save the cost of an not.  Surely better getting the use of the car for the entire period you are having to pay for it.

[Slacker]

7 minutes ago, strichener said:

If you hand it back early you will still have to pay the months that you are due.  All to save the cost of an not.  Surely better getting the use of the car for the entire period you are having to pay for it.

No I don’t, once you’ve paid up 50% you can hand it back without having to pay any of the outstanding balance. 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

as a wee heads up (I'd managed to miss it somehow!) but it looks like the 6 month MOT exemption is changing a bit.

If I've read it right, if your MOT will have expired after 01 August you'll need to get it done as normal, if it ordinarily would expire between 30 March and 01 August then the 6 month extension is still in effect.

Doubt many would get caught out by it but thought I'd post anyway in case anyone needs to change their plans and start thinking about getting one booked!

edit: link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mandatory-mot-testing-to-be-reintroduced-from-1-august

• mandatory MOT tests for car, motorcycle and van owners in England, Scotland and Wales to be reintroduced to keep roads safe
• drivers encouraged to book a test in advance to ensure vehicles are in a roadworthy condition
• vehicle owners with an MOT due date before 1 August will still receive a 6-month exemption

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely

[strichener]

14 minutes ago, Slacker said:

No I don’t, once you’ve paid up 50% you can hand it back without having to pay any of the outstanding balance. 

No, you have to have paid over 50% of the total amount payable.  Also, finance companies do not look favourably on people who voluntarily hand back vehicles under s99.

Unless you have a very low GFV which means you have already paid for future depreciation then there is a good chance that your PCP would never involve you paying back over 50% of the total payable in the lifetime of the contract.

Edited June 30, 2020 by strichener

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

I have to agree with beefybake on this one. Although I get the benefits of PCP i.e it’s perhaps less hassle and covered under warranty, I hate the idea of not actually owning my car. I couldn’t believe it when I was once told that you don’t actually get to keep the car - you never pay it off. To me that is madness. At least with a phone contract you get to keep it at the end of the contract.

PCP just seems like another way for a company to keep getting money out of folk forever more. Personally I’d much rather buy a car outright. That way it’s actually mine, I don’t need to worry about minor damage to it and I’m not paying for it every single month. Even my shitheap of a car, which has had to go through hundreds of pounds of repairs between October - February hasn’t cost me anywhere near as much as 150 quid a month. It’s money down the drain IMO.

Well you aren’t comparing apples with apples. If I was wanting to drive about in a car worth a hundred quid, yes I would buy it outright. Realistically your car is worth buttons and is a deathtrap, so the feeling of ‘ownership’ means pretty much nothing. Neither of us really have an asset. That’s hundreds you’ve spent on repairs, MOT bill, reduced fuel efficiency, higher road tax, probably higher insurance and the hassle of never feeling secure that your motor isn’t going to break down. 

For the reasons I’ve explained above, PCP worked better for me. Different options make financial sense for different people and it depends what you want. One way isn’t necessarily ‘better’ than another. As I said, I wouldn’t have got close to 2k for my old car if I wasn’t trading it in on the PCP deal. I am also saving for a deposit and didn’t want to spend 12 grand in one go. 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

On 29/06/2020 at 14:18, welshbairn said:

PCP means you're paying for the depreciation plus profit without owning the car, for the privilege of driving something new and shiny. If you just want a car to get you from A to B I don't see the advantage with modern cars that are usually more reliable and need less maintenance to get a good few years out of.

I think that's right, yeah. Can mind there being a BBC Radio Scotland debate around car insurance or something a couple of years ago, and I'm sure one of the experts brought up something to the effect that by and large it's a competitive enough market in Europe that pretty much anything you buy that's made within the last 10 years is going to be a "good" car (with the caveat of it being regularly serviced and maintained)

Some makes and models were mentioned as being particularly better on the reliability score than others (think the guy praised any older Honda or Toyota motors in particular, although I mind a friend of mine that works at a Toyota garage saying they can be pretty expensive for parts so there's maybe a premium on a reputation for reliability to factor in) but you're not going to be getting a shitwagon from a country that no longer exists (with 300 hectares per tank of kerosene)

I mean I still see quite a few old Saab's cutting about and they've been dead for a few years.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely

[The_Kincardine]

On 28/06/2020 at 16:47, JamesP_81 said:

Looking to get a car with 3 full size seats along the back due to the imminent arrival of child number 3. Research seems to point me towards a Citroën c4 grand spacetourer/Picasso giving best bang for its buck, does anyone have any experience of these or class rivals eg Ford S-max etc..

My neighbour has a 59 plate Jag XF (not my cup of tea but he likes it) and when they had Brat #3, rather than change the car, they bought a 3-across-the-back seat arrangement from Multimac: https://www.multimac.com/home

It's pretty pricey (about £1,500?) but maybe cheaper than changing your car and allows him to drive a car that he actually likes rather than these God-awful MPV or Crossover abominations.

Edit:  Rule Britannia ta bass.

Edited June 30, 2020 by The_Kincardine

[NJ2]

My neighbour has a 59 plate Jag XF (not my cup of tea but he likes it) and when they had Brat #3, rather than change the car, they bought a 3-across-the-back seat arrangement from Multimac: https://www.multimac.com/home
It's pretty pricey (about £1,500?) but maybe cheaper than changing your car and allows him to drive a car that he actually likes rather than these God-awful MPV or Crossover abominations.

Sad to see Kincardine’s account has been taken over by bots. Guess WTM caught up with him.

[RandomGuy.]

4 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

I could’ve took a bank loan out and bought the car directly, I doubt I would have received the same deal in terms of contribution to my deposit which I got my taking the PCP deal though.

Yes, but you're taking the risk that your car will be worthless in a few years.

From second hand experience, your final payment to buy the car the end of the PCP will be around 175% of its value at the time. You'll, sensibly, refuse to pay that. 

You'll then get the option to either use the remaining value towards another PCP deal, or simply hand the car back.

Option two obviously leaves you without a car, and without any money for losing the car.

Most people won't be able to buy a new car outright without getting the money for selling the one they've lost, so will go for another PCP deal. 

And so the endless cycle goes on, until you either vastly overpay for a 3/4 year old car, or get enough money you don't need to sell a car to fund a new one.

PCP deals are car dealers wet dream. The customer pays well over value through the interest. At the end, the dealer then either gets a huge profit on a car they could never sell for the money they'll get, or they get a spotless (you have to pay for damage to be sorted) 3/4 year old car for absolutely nothing. 

[The_Kincardine]

6 minutes ago, NJ2 said:

Sad to see Kincardine’s account has been taken over by bots. Guess WTM caught up with him.

I've updated my post to fit my style guide.  Happy?

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yes, but you're taking the risk that your car will be worthless in a few years.

From second hand experience, your final payment to buy the car the end of the PCP will be around 175% of its value at the time. You'll, sensibly, refuse to pay that. 

You'll then get the option to either use the remaining value towards another PCP deal, or simply hand the car back.

Option two obviously leaves you without a car, and without any money for losing the car.

Most people won't be able to buy a new car outright without getting the money for selling the one they've lost, so will go for another PCP deal. 

And so the endless cycle goes on, until you either vastly overpay for a 3/4 year old car, or get enough money you don't need to sell a car to fund a new one.

PCP deals are car dealers wet dream. The customer pays well over value through the interest. At the end, the dealer then either gets a huge profit on a car they could never sell for the money they'll get, or they get a spotless (you have to pay for damage to be sorted) 3/4 year old car for absolutely nothing. 

Yeah that isn’t really a risk for me. So I’ve went from having f**k all to... having f**k all. And managed to get a good deal out of them for a shitheap car in the first place. In a couple of years, all things being well, I’ll be in a stronger financial position and plan to own my own place at which point I will reassess what option suits me best. At the time it was PCP, next time it may not be. 

I don’t want to keep the same car for any longer than three years anyway. Variety is the spice of life, RandomGuy, my dear friend. At the end of a phone contract I keep the old phone but it gets punted into a drawer somewhere and I take out a new deal. It’s a dog eat dog world.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Yeah that isn’t really a risk for me. So I’ve went from having f**k all to... having f**k all. And managed to get a good deal out of them for a shitheap car in the first place. In a couple of years, all things being well, I’ll be in a stronger financial position and plan to own my own place at which point I will reassess what option suits me best. At the time it was PCP, next time it may not be. 

I don’t want to keep the same car for any longer than three years anyway. Variety is the spice of life, RandomGuy, my dear friend. At the end of a phone contract I keep the old phone but it gets punted into a drawer somewhere and I take out a new deal. It’s a dog eat dog world.

Yeah different folks, different strokes.

I just know of a few younger folk who got caught early on with the promise of "stress free driving and a new car every few years", and a decade down the line are still making monthly payments for the type of car they could probably have owned outright by now. Its an easy slope to slip down and can end up causing you bother financially once other drains on your finances hopefully start to appear.

I can fix most of my cars for almost no cost though, so I have a different perspective to cars financially to other people.

[beefybake]

2 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

as a wee heads up (I'd managed to miss it somehow!) but it looks like the 6 month MOT exemption is changing a bit.

If I've read it right, if your MOT will have expired after 01 August you'll need to get it done as normal, if it ordinarily would expire between 30 March and 01 August then the 6 month extension is still in effect.

Doubt many would get caught out by it but thought I'd post anyway in case anyone needs to change their plans and start thinking about getting one booked!

edit: link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mandatory-mot-testing-to-be-reintroduced-from-1-august

• mandatory MOT tests for car, motorcycle and van owners in England, Scotland and Wales to be reintroduced to keep roads safe
• drivers encouraged to book a test in advance to ensure vehicles are in a roadworthy condition
• vehicle owners with an MOT due date before 1 August will still receive a 6-month exemption

 

My reading of it is that if  your MOT expires before the 1st August, then your 6 month extension will automatically come through.

If your MOT expires on or after the 1st August, then your MOT will expire on that date, no extension, and your car  needs to be presented for MOT in the usual way.

 

The MOT on my car is due on the 1st August... ( F**k, f**k, f**ety f**k )..  

I've been considering changing my old Golf TDI,  but intended to think it over for a couple of months.  As it's now 15+ years old, 

and usually needs a couple of hundred £'s work on top of the MOT fee, I'm going to have to decide in the next couple

of weeks whether to move it on, or put it through the MOT.  It runs great, 50mpg easily ,  and I like driving it, the quality planted feel

about it........ But I'm trying to get away from diesels, and by definition, it'll gradually need more attentions. 

 

For anyone who's interested, just thought I'd put up a couple of links that I'll likely be using myself.

1. This gives MOT pass rate data for all the different makes and models, and gives a decent impression of the likely reliability of a car.

     https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/mot-test-results/

 

2.  This is Parkers Car Price Guide.  There is a Free Valuation function, which is good for casual browsing.   Of more interest to me

      is the Paid Valuation function.  If you're scouting through second hand car ads, this could be useful. 

      By using the paid function ( eg £9.99 for 1 month's access ) , you get to see car prices/values

      that take into account the mileage, optional extras...

     https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-valuation/

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by beefybake

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Lockdown does strange things to people. out of boredom a few weeks ago I ordered an OBD dongle.

I set it up earlier today out of curiosity and was amazed that despite no warning lights it flagged up a few faults.

Some were navigation, radio &  lights, most worrying was an ABS fault, this despite the car being fine.

How trustworthy are these devices?

[mac.i]

Yes, but you're taking the risk that your car will be worthless in a few years.
From second hand experience, your final payment to buy the car the end of the PCP will be around 175% of its value at the time. You'll, sensibly, refuse to pay that. 
You'll then get the option to either use the remaining value towards another PCP deal, or simply hand the car back.
Option two obviously leaves you without a car, and without any money for losing the car.
Most people won't be able to buy a new car outright without getting the money for selling the one they've lost, so will go for another PCP deal. 
And so the endless cycle goes on, until you either vastly overpay for a 3/4 year old car, or get enough money you don't need to sell a car to fund a new one.
PCP deals are car dealers wet dream. The customer pays well over value through the interest. At the end, the dealer then either gets a huge profit on a car they could never sell for the money they'll get, or they get a spotless (you have to pay for damage to be sorted) 3/4 year old car for absolutely nothing. 

That means it's a very badly structured PCP deal; the aim is to leave you with enough equity to form a deposit on the next deal. Ideally from that dealership.

I've been on both sides of the desk for PCP deals and if the numbers are sensible it can be a good way to buy. There are some incredibly poor examples I have seen advertised though!

Its 17 years since I worked in car sales for a BMW dealer; BMW always set fairly low balloon payments and the average BMW was worth around 63% of purchase price after 3 years at that time.....

[HoBNob]

49 minutes ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

Lockdown does strange things to people. out of boredom a few weeks ago I ordered an OBD dongle.

I set it up earlier today out of curiosity and was amazed that despite no warning lights it flagged up a few faults.

Some were navigation, radio &  lights, most worrying was an ABS fault, this despite the car being fine.

How trustworthy are these devices?

Some are more trustworthy than others, cheap ones don't usually show Abs faults so that's weird that yours does. Realistically if the car feels like it's driving fine then don't worry. 

When we plug in the diagnostic equipment into the vehicle normally a few will pop up regardless if the dash is clear. 

They can also send you down a right rabbit hole, when I started out I had an astra with a dodgy knock sensor apparently, a couple of never to be recovered hours fluking some shite only to realise the oil was low, what, a, c**t. 

[Honest Saints Fan]

14 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

My neighbour has a 59 plate Jag XF (not my cup of tea but he likes it) and when they had Brat #3, rather than change the car, they bought a 3-across-the-back seat arrangement from Multimac: https://www.multimac.com/home

It's pretty pricey (about £1,500?) but maybe cheaper than changing your car and allows him to drive a car that he actually likes rather than these God-awful MPV or Crossover abominations.

Edit:  Rule Britannia ta bass.

Just to say I wouldn't recommend this as you can only put a rear facing car seat on it if child is below 13kg. Rear facing proven to be the safest way for a child to travel. 

[CountyFan]

On 30/06/2020 at 00:15, gav-ffc said:

I know of someone who’s 10k a year mileage and is over it by 17k each year and only has had the car for 2 of the 4 years. 

Ouch. Why didnt they call them when their circumstances changed and re-do the deal to make it more accurate to the actual mileage they were doing? They would have upped the monthly payment but surely that would be a more cost effective way of doing it rather than getting a huge excess mileage bill at the end of the deal? 

[gav-ffc]

53 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

Ouch. Why didnt they call them when their circumstances changed and re-do the deal to make it more accurate to the actual mileage they were doing? They would have upped the monthly payment but surely that would be a more cost effective way of doing it rather than getting a huge excess mileage bill at the end of the deal? 

Circumstances haven’t changed, does work that involves a lot of miles daily and think she’ll talk her way out the excess mileage payments.

[RH33]

12 minutes ago, gav-ffc said:

Circumstances haven’t changed, does work that involves a lot of miles daily and think she’ll talk her way out the excess mileage payments.

No chance.