Bitcoin/cryptocurrency thread

[DiegoDiego]

Two weeks ago I invested in the Jags Foundation, which is the native supporters fund for Partick Thistle. By becoming a member it will eventually give me part-ownership of the club and future dividends. Partick Thistle have been around since 1876. What are your thoughts? We are currently at a low, down 14 places from our high, so there might be upside on the club itself.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Two weeks ago I invested in the Jags Foundation, which is the native supporters fund for Partick Thistle. By becoming a member it will eventually give me part-ownership of the club and future dividends. Partick Thistle have been around since 1876. What are your thoughts? We are currently at a low, down 14 places from our high, so there might be upside on the club itself.

It looks broadly similar to the foundation of Hearts which means it’s not really a financial investment as such and is highly unlikely to distribute dividends which is probably a good thing.

I couldn’t see any references to a decentralised blockchain ledger of members contributions though so presumably they’re doing this the normal way

[gaz5]

Two weeks ago I invested in the Jags Foundation, which is the native supporters fund for Partick Thistle. By becoming a member it will eventually give me part-ownership of the club and future dividends. Partick Thistle have been around since 1876. What are your thoughts? We are currently at a low, down 14 places from our high, so there might be upside on the club itself.

With the mods having deleted the post you were taking the piss out of, this looks really weird without that context. [emoji1787]

[topcat(The most tip top)]

With the mods having deleted the post you were taking the piss out of, this looks really weird without that context. [emoji1787]

Although still not the weirdest thing on this thread

[gaz5]

Found this quite an interesting conversation, overall. It's nearly 2 hours long, but I found a lot of interesting perspectives in it.

[Zetterlund]

5 hours ago, gaz5 said:

 

 

Found this quite an interesting conversation, overall. It's nearly 2 hours long, but I found a lot of interesting perspectives in it.

 

I'll give this a watch later. Sven Henrich is a good guy to follow, but I struggle to listen to Saylor after his "sell your house & business and buy bitcoin" rant 

[gaz5]

I'll give this a watch later. Sven Henrich is a good guy to follow, but I struggle to listen to Saylor after his "sell your house & business and buy bitcoin" rant [emoji38]

Yes, that was ill advised. [emoji846]

I generally think he gets a pretty bad reputation because he's not good in soundbites. Some of the stuff he says in one liners that gets picked up is batshit crazy (like your example) so you definitely need to listen with a questioning ear, but when he does longer stuff like this, where it's not just 2 minutes and he gets a chance to fully discuss his perspective, I find him a decent enough listen.

Some things I agree with (like his inflation segment at the start, that's pretty much a presentation I gave 2 months or so back on real terms inflation vs Government numbers), others not so much, but I enjoyed the chat for the most part.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

On 28/01/2022 at 11:49, morrison said:

This is long, but a good watch. More an attack on NFTs than crypto, but definitely a bit of both.

Obviously those involved will dismiss it & those not will agree, such is the nature of the world these days.

 

Came up in my recommended after this, found it a good watch. Main takeaway was that if crypto goes To the Moon, what would that mean for, say, a 5 year old today who doesnt have the means to get in early enough to profit from it? Also that some utterly horrid people who are, say, barred from directorships or trading in securities are currently having a field day with crypto.

It does touch on that a 5 year olds prospects might not be too great crypto or no crypto, but iirc a move to bolstering minimum wages/labour protections might be a way to fight the hopelessness driving a lot of people into it.

[morrison]

Yeah it's cropped up for me too, I'm about half way through it just now.

[gaz5]

 
Came up in my recommended after this, found it a good watch. Main takeaway was that if crypto goes To the Moon, what would that mean for, say, a 5 year old today who doesnt have the means to get in early enough to profit from it? Also that some utterly horrid people who are, say, barred from directorships or trading in securities are currently having a field day with crypto.
It does touch on that a 5 year olds prospects might not be too great crypto or no crypto, but iirc a move to bolstering minimum wages/labour protections might be a way to fight the hopelessness driving a lot of people into it.

Cheers, will give it a watch. [emoji106]

Personally I think the biggest issue facing younger generations is the same one that we faced, a lack of general financial understanding/literacy, twisting to all asset classes and general money management/growth. That's unlikely to change quickly.

You're right, the argument about the cost of opportunity isn't a crypto specific one, it's an asset one across all asset classes.

Ultimately, with wages rising lower than CPI every year but equities/property/crypto (for example) being assets that people look to buy with those wages to protect wealth/ beat inflation, the returns you are getting an all of those assets are raising the cost of entry for all who come after you, including you in DCA and, in itself, is inflation of asset value versus fiat currency. That's not a uniquely Crypto problem.

And yeah, the lack of regulation certainly brings some colorful individuals to the Crypto market. [emoji846]

My view is that is always the case in emerging markets (stocks were the same 12 years after their inception and arguably far longer if you look at 2008 and CDO's, for example!).

Regulation will come and it will be a good thing (despite what many think, I disagree, it's required, absolutely, for Crypto to become a normalised asset class).

Hopefully that drives those types out in the long term, but it certainly makes it a far higher risk part of a diversified portfolio than traditional equities/bonds/commodities and why at this stage I still wouldn't recommend people to "all in". I'm currently at about 20% overall, but that was starting from 5% allocation and grew to 20% fairly quickly. I think 5% is about right to start personally.

[iron mike python]

2 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

 

Came up in my recommended after this, found it a good watch. Main takeaway was that if crypto goes To the Moon, what would that mean for, say, a 5 year old today who doesnt have the means to get in early enough to profit from it? Also that some utterly horrid people who are, say, barred from directorships or trading in securities are currently having a field day with crypto.

It does touch on that a 5 year olds prospects might not be too great crypto or no crypto, but iirc a move to bolstering minimum wages/labour protections might be a way to fight the hopelessness driving a lot of people into it.

" If Crypto Goes to the moon" - there are diminishing returns for people who buy in crypto therefore the hype will die off over time for established assets. e.g. You won't see Bitcoin just go straight up any more. It is becoming a more established asset class and therefore the returns just aren't as 'juicy' as more riskier crypto assets, (the same will happen to them for the crypto assets that have a long life and prove utility).

I don't believe BTC will ever "go to the moon" again but I think it is a good investment over the long term and will go gradually higher over time with peaks and troughs in between.

What it does give that 5 year old is an alternative way of holding/moving value in a system that is 'currently' auditable by any person in the world. As long as that 5 year old has his/her keys, that value belongs to the 5 year old and no trusted 3rd party.

[DiegoDiego]

The notion that crypto is a bad idea because a five year old won't get rich from it is a pretty baffling one. Besides the many other faults in that argument, presumably that five year old isn't an orphan and has parents who can take advantage of "mooning" crypto, and send them to a good school, et cetera.

[Satoshi]

Say it quietly, but it's a great time to buy crypto at the moment.

DCA of course, but if you have a spare 5k (for example) worth putting in 1k a month during these bear markets. Pick a day when it falls - there are plenty to choose from!

I'm less convinced it's a great time to be investing in stocks but I'll be doing that too, inflation will erode any excess cash and I'm too lazy / uninformed to buy into property, classic cars or fine wine.

To the moon! (Or to the cheap wine store).

 

[gaz5]

Say it quietly, but it's a great time to buy crypto at the moment.
DCA of course, but if you have a spare 5k (for example) worth putting in 1k a month during these bear markets. Pick a day when it falls - there are plenty to choose from!
I'm less convinced it's a great time to be investing in stocks but I'll be doing that too, inflation will erode any excess cash and I'm too lazy / uninformed to buy into property, classic cars or fine wine.
To the moon! (Or to the cheap wine store).
 

No offence, but it's a terrible time to buy any risk on assets at the moment, crypto included. [emoji1787]

[DiegoDiego]

I'm less convinced it's a great time to be investing in stocks but I'll be doing that too, inflation will erode any excess cash and I'm too lazy / uninformed to buy into property, classic cars or fine wine.
To the moon! (Or to the cheap wine store)

My whisky assets seem to be undergoing some heavy depreciation lately. I'm sure that Lagavulin was full yesterday.

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, gaz5 said:

No offence, but it's a terrible time to buy any risk on assets at the moment, crypto included.

Buy when others are panicking. Plus if gold is rising it's good news for alternative stores of values as well.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Satoshi

[Kapowzer]

3 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Buy when others are panicking. Plus if gold is rising it's good news for alternative stores of values as well.

Maybe so but this dip has a while to run yet, buying in now with so much uncertainty is not on my radar.

[gaz5]

Buy when others are panicking. Plus if gold is rising it's good news for alternative stores of values as well.

Crypto is not a store of value. [emoji846]
Not yet anyway.

I'm a buyer when it gets to 21k to 24k, which is where we could be headed. 29k seems a certainty as a minimum.

Certainly not a buyer less than 12 hours after Russia invaded Ukraine. You need to give that shit a few weeks at least to play out. It ain't gonna bottom in 12 hours from that! Same as stocks won't.

Advising people to buy now is reckless IMO.

The bottom will come when the FED announces they are pulling back in QT because of "the situation in Ukraine" and they will continue QE "for now" as a result.

My prediction is that comes in the next 4 weeks, at the FOMC, with news stories leaked before that to gauge public opinion.

But then, that's because that's what I think this Ukraine business is mainly about. And that I find rather disgusting.

[Satoshi]

12 hours ago, gaz5 said:

Crypto is not a store of value.
Not yet anyway.

I'm a buyer when it gets to 21k to 24k, which is where we could be headed. 29k seems a certainty as a minimum.

Certainly not a buyer less than 12 hours after Russia invaded Ukraine. You need to give that shit a few weeks at least to play out. It ain't gonna bottom in 12 hours from that! Same as stocks won't.

Advising people to buy now is reckless IMO.

The bottom will come when the FED announces they are pulling back in QT because of "the situation in Ukraine" and they will continue QE "for now" as a result.

My prediction is that comes in the next 4 weeks, at the FOMC, with news stories leaked before that to gauge public opinion.

But then, that's because that's what I think this Ukraine business is mainly about. And that I find rather disgusting.

 

The most pertinent question isn't whether it will be bottom, that's unknowable, just whether it will rise from where it is now. And it's most likely to rise after a big fall. Same now, and same during the financial crisis. The only 'crisis' that I didn't buy into was COVID because it's the first time the stockmarket has really seen a pandemic, it's not the first time it's seen a war. You can wait for a bigger fall, I'll still have fiat reserves in that case too, but nothing wrong with buying the big fall right in front of you.

As for store of value, the most relevant qualifying criteria that you are a store of value is that people believe you are a store of value. Plenty of people believe Bitcoin is, not enough but that will come in time.

My Ether purchase is up 5% (not bad for a day on day increase).

My ETF purchase hasn't gone through yet because I use the UKs cheapest (and worst) online platform.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

My ETF purchase hasn't gone through yet because I use the UKs cheapest (and worst) online platform.

That's one of the things I don't get, somebody told me that blockchain would put traditional exchanges like Swift out of business because it was so much faster. From what I hear it's painfully slow unless you pay a huge transaction fee. Not being able to trade quickly is a huge negative for me.

Edited February 25, 2022 by welshbairn