The Alloa Athletic Thread

[Kevchenko]

This weeks episode of the podcast is up - dissecting the Kelty defeat and looking ahead to the Falkirk game. 
 

https://waspsnest.buzzsprout.com/

[Ian Mcleod]

31 minutes ago, printer said:

He's done that with us also.

I like the intent, but sticking to it every game as a principle even when circumstances call for, say, one up is a weakness IMO. Just now we are short on strikers, but have several good attacking midfielders. In particular against a team with Falkirk's quality, winning the midfield battle is vital - IMO we have the players to do that if set up correctly.

 

 

Yeah at times with us he should of defo of changed it up. But he did do well with us given the tools he had available were nowhere near premiership standard I would say he done a decent job keeping us in the premiership for a season and a half. 

[Waspie]

3 hours ago, printer said:

He's done that with us also.

I like the intent, but sticking to it every game as a principle even when circumstances call for, say, one up is a weakness IMO. Just now we are short on strikers, but have several good attacking midfielders. In particular against a team with Falkirk's quality, winning the midfield battle is vital - IMO we have the players to do that if set up correctly.

 

 

The idea that two up is automatically more attacking is just flawed. I've said it a few times but our teams with 1 up under Ross, Goodwin and Grant were far more attacking and effective than anything we've done with 2 up over the past 18 months. That's not to say 2 up can't work but we haven't done it well under Brian Rice and we're currently short up front too.

Interesting to see Ross MacIver getting good reviews at this early stage at Falkirk, apparently playing as the 1 up top and linking effectively with those behind and bringing them into play. We invariably played him as part of a two with Sammon which wasn't particularly effective. There was often a big gap between midfield and attack and lots of long balls punted towards the two attackers. He'd probably have been far more effective in a 4-2-3-1 and would have helped get more out of the creative midfielders than we ever managed. It's perhaps symbolic of the manager that he identified a player with potential, got him for free and gave him loads of games, but couldn't settle on a shape or partner that best utilised his talents. 

[Ian Mcleod]

39 minutes ago, Waspie said:

The idea that two up is automatically more attacking is just flawed. I've said it a few times but our teams with 1 up under Ross, Goodwin and Grant were far more attacking and effective than anything we've done with 2 up over the past 18 months. That's not to say 2 up can't work but we haven't done it well under Brian Rice and we're currently short up front too.

Interesting to see Ross MacIver getting good reviews at this early stage at Falkirk, apparently playing as the 1 up top and linking effectively with those behind and bringing them into play. We invariably played him as part of a two with Sammon which wasn't particularly effective. There was often a big gap between midfield and attack and lots of long balls punted towards the two attackers. He'd probably have been far more effective in a 4-2-3-1 and would have helped get more out of the creative midfielders than we ever managed. It's perhaps symbolic of the manager that he identified a player with potential, got him for free and gave him loads of games, but couldn't settle on a shape or partner that best utilised his talents. 

I mean even though I don't agree with Rice on this 1. Every manager has there ways I guess. I was fine when we played 2 up top but It did annoy me when he was playing a left winger/left back Up top who just got released by EK in the summer when we were in the premiership. 

[LeodhasXD]

47 minutes ago, Waspie said:

The idea that two up is automatically more attacking is just flawed. I've said it a few times but our teams with 1 up under Ross, Goodwin and Grant were far more attacking and effective than anything we've done with 2 up over the past 18 months. That's not to say 2 up can't work but we haven't done it well under Brian Rice and we're currently short up front too.

Interesting to see Ross MacIver getting good reviews at this early stage at Falkirk, apparently playing as the 1 up top and linking effectively with those behind and bringing them into play. We invariably played him as part of a two with Sammon which wasn't particularly effective. There was often a big gap between midfield and attack and lots of long balls punted towards the two attackers. He'd probably have been far more effective in a 4-2-3-1 and would have helped get more out of the creative midfielders than we ever managed. It's perhaps symbolic of the manager that he identified a player with potential, got him for free and gave him loads of games, but couldn't settle on a shape or partner that best utilised his talents. 

I think it's simplistic to say that Sammon and MacIver didn't work well together. Certainly a team effort to get Sammon the goal return that he did and we wouldn't have seen that impressive tally without MacIver. Would we have done better with just MacIver? Personally not sure he showed enough killer instinct when it did fall to him to carry us on his own.

I can't speak for his League Cup goals but having watched the opening three league games for Falkirk the role he plays is very similar to what he did for us. He's just bringing a Calvin Miller, Alfredo Agyeman or Calumn Morrison into the game which I would suggest as better goalscorers than our equivalent options currently. His two league goals have been headers from fairly delicious deliveries _{andI think he's hit the post although I'm not actually 100% its him because it's been pixellot footage for Cove and Annan and difficult to identify the players.} But I don't think any of us can deny how good he was in the air from his time at Alloa.

[SouthStander1876]

9 hours ago, LeodhasXD said:

I think it's simplistic to say that Sammon and MacIver didn't work well together. Certainly a team effort to get Sammon the goal return that he did and we wouldn't have seen that impressive tally without MacIver. Would we have done better with just MacIver? Personally not sure he showed enough killer instinct when it did fall to him to carry us on his own.

I can't speak for his League Cup goals but having watched the opening three league games for Falkirk the role he plays is very similar to what he did for us. He's just bringing a Calvin Miller, Alfredo Agyeman or Calumn Morrison into the game which I would suggest as better goalscorers than our equivalent options currently. His two league goals have been headers from fairly delicious deliveries "_{andI think he's hit the post although I'm not actually 100% its him because it's been pixellot footage for Cove and Annan and difficult to identify the players".} But I don't think any of us can deny how good he was in the air from his time at Alloa.

Hit the bar and post against Cove Very unlucky

[Father Barrys Sign (Top Half)]

11 hours ago, Waspie said:

The idea that two up is automatically more attacking is just flawed. I've said it a few times but our teams with 1 up under Ross, Goodwin and Grant were far more attacking and effective than anything we've done with 2 up over the past 18 months. That's not to say 2 up can't work but we haven't done it well under Brian Rice and we're currently short up front too.

Interesting to see Ross MacIver getting good reviews at this early stage at Falkirk, apparently playing as the 1 up top and linking effectively with those behind and bringing them into play. We invariably played him as part of a two with Sammon which wasn't particularly effective. There was often a big gap between midfield and attack and lots of long balls punted towards the two attackers. He'd probably have been far more effective in a 4-2-3-1 and would have helped get more out of the creative midfielders than we ever managed. It's perhaps symbolic of the manager that he identified a player with potential, got him for free and gave him loads of games, but couldn't settle on a shape or partner that best utilised his talents. 

We also flirted with something of a front three with MacIver, Donnelly and Coulson against Edinburgh away last season and all three were terrific that day. Never saw it again though, but Donnelly being injured may have been a factor. 

I think printers team is exactly what I would go with against Falkirk. Be interesting to see how MacIver does against us. As stated, absolutely brilliant in the air and did score a few good headers for us, including the goal of the season vote against Queens away. 

[Waspie]

16 hours ago, LeodhasXD said:

I think it's simplistic to say that Sammon and MacIver didn't work well together. Certainly a team effort to get Sammon the goal return that he did and we wouldn't have seen that impressive tally without MacIver. Would we have done better with just MacIver? Personally not sure he showed enough killer instinct when it did fall to him to carry us on his own.

I can't speak for his League Cup goals but having watched the opening three league games for Falkirk the role he plays is very similar to what he did for us. He's just bringing a Calvin Miller, Alfredo Agyeman or Calumn Morrison into the game which I would suggest as better goalscorers than our equivalent options currently. His two league goals have been headers from fairly delicious deliveries _{andI think he's hit the post although I'm not actually 100% its him because it's been pixellot footage for Cove and Annan and difficult to identify the players.} But I don't think any of us can deny how good he was in the air from his time at Alloa.

You could make a case that Sammon's tally vindicated playing MacIver with him for chunks of the season. Was that the key for Sammon getting those goals? Not convinced. And how much did we miss out on by failing to get the best out of our creative attacking midfielders. That's where MacIver can excell, even if he isn't scoring loads. Scougall in particular is a gem of a player for this level but we never consistently make the most of him, or indeed LD or wee Kev. With Sammon and MacIver we invariably ended up just hitting balls towards them rather than using the creative talents of those midfielders. Killie fans will tell you too that Sammo was at his best with a playmaker right behind him rather than as a targetman. Sammon/MacIver not a particularly effective partnership for me and at times pretty hard to watch! 

Did think the shape of the team in the second half at Kelty last week was an improvement and had most of our key men in areas of the field where they are most effective. Something like that tomorrow would be welcome. 

[Rory]

See we've got a new striker Taylor Steven in on loan from St Johnstone. Anyone know anything about him?

Seems a bit like Offord on paper, a young striker with prospects of a good career.

[Beachcomber]

18 minutes ago, Rory said:

See we've got a new striker Taylor Steven in on loan from St Johnstone. Anyone know anything about him?

Seems a bit like Offord on paper, a young striker with prospects of a good career.

Was with us last season and featured quite a lot, with the majority from the bench.

I was a bit disappointed in him but he was only 18 so don't want to be too hard on him but never really looked like scoring. 

He's not tall and likes the ball to feet, he was easily bullied by seasoned pros in League 2.

[vespa]

If he's of the same mould as Stevie May....he'll be a cracker!

 

Just hope he gets plenty of game time.

Edited August 25, 2023 by vespa

[printer]

2 hours ago, Rory said:

See we've got a new striker Taylor Steven in on loan from St Johnstone. Anyone know anything about him?

Seems a bit like Offord on paper, a young striker with prospects of a good career.

Obviously good we've brought another striker in.

Looking back to the St Johnstone game in the League Cup, I see he came on with twenty minutes to go. 

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, printer said:

Obviously good we've brought another striker in.

Looking back to the St Johnstone game in the League Cup, I see he came on with twenty minutes to go. 

He was our best player against County in his cameo in our last league game too.

Predominantly played on the left wing for us this season but unsure where he feels is best. Quick and direct, and wants to play aggressively too, can see his size being an issue though when playing full games rather than cameos against tired defences.

Interested to see how he gets on.

[Willie Gut]

This ..... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66621772

Don't see this unfortunate incident being repeated here.

a)  could be a long time before Scotland's women win World Cup

b) Tried very hard, but can't visualise MM being aroused around women. Maybe if it was a Big Mac with cheese ?

 

[Dink]

17 hours ago, Rory said:

See we've got a new striker Taylor Steven in on loan from St Johnstone. Anyone know anything about him?

Seems a bit like Offord on paper, a young striker with prospects of a good career.

My St Johnstone supporting mate is a big fan of Taylor, and apparently a few of their fans wanted him to get in their starting 11 (although that needs to be taken in context of their injury problems).  Apart from that he largely echoes what Random Guy has posted above.

A couple of seasons ago we signed a young loan striker in advance of a Falkirk game at around this point in the season and he did pretty well. Between that and the inevitable Stevie May comparisons I'm going to be disappointed if he fails to break the 20 goal mark this season.

[Ian Mcleod]

Yeah after watching that today I might of been wrong on a couple of things that was absolutely rotten from Alloa today. Doesn't get easier for you with your next 2 games being against Cove and us. That Annan game is already looking like a must win game for you. Surely they will still be a couple of more loan signings in the next month for Alloa you badly need it.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Ian Mcleod

[Rory]

Couple of individual mistakes letting us down again. Debayo was poor and I'm surprised he didn't come off at half time.

Can't have a go at Rice for trying a formation that suits us better. We looked better for it. 

Why Deveney came on at right wing back is baffling. Saw on a couple of occasions when he got into good positions he couldn't cross it with his right food.

Was nice to see Jay Hogarth popped in and was standing with the home fans. Wonder if he'll be in goal for Rangers B when we play them 

[Kevchenko]

1 hour ago, Rory said:

Can't have a go at Rice for trying a formation that suits us better. We looked better for it. 

Why Deveney came on at right wing back is baffling.

This is it in a nutshell. 
 

Since he came in I’ve been pretty positive about Rice - he more than steadied the ship after the calamity of Ferguson and then went on to make the playoffs, and bar some unfortunate luck, could have made the playoff final - but, seeing Debayo thrown in at left back while Deveney (who was one of the bright sparks of a pretty shocking preseason/League cup) sits on the bench, and then bringing him on the right side while Taggs is on the pitch is last straw territory for me. 
 

Easy to be hasty after a 4-1 pumping at home, but truth is it’s a culmination of the 14 or 15 games that have constituted this season - changing shape/personnel and playing guys out of position can be looked over when you are winning games and making promotion playoffs, but when you are on a run like this it’s the bullet in the chamber that Rice has loaded all by himself. 
 

Right now it’s hard to envisage us taking anything from the next two games before we play Annan, unfortunately, and it’s not inconceivable for us to be sitting bottom of the pile at that point - only question for me now is when is the best timing for him to go and Andy to take over. 

[Magic Hat]

Utterly fed up watching this Alloa team, the football is absolutely brutal, we can't defend and are toothless up front.

Have tried to give Rice a chance this season but every game he makes awful tactical decisions.

Agree with the above point about Deveney, think he has looked okay at left back but for some reason he starts with Debayo, utterly baffling. That is just one of so many over the last 14 months.

We still have some good players in Scougall, Taggart, Cawley and Hetherington. A good manager should be able to make this team competitive. 

We will probably be stuck with Rice for the rest of the season which is a really depressing thought.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Magic Hat

[Vegetableman]

2 hours ago, Rory said:

Couple of individual mistakes letting us down again. Debayo was poor and I'm surprised he didn't come off at half time.

Can't have a go at Rice for trying a formation that suits us better. We looked better for it. 

Why Deveney came on at right wing back is baffling. Saw on a couple of occasions when he got into good positions he couldn't cross it with his right food.

Was nice to see Jay Hogarth popped in and was standing with the home fans. Wonder if he'll be in goal for Rangers B when we play them 

Apparently not 2nd choice to mcrorie he said .