Rodhull Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Just now, TrebleTwenty said: How can they demand 600k? when his contract with them is done end of this month? He's under 23 so we would have to pay compensation just like Ferguson for Hamilton and as he's been capped for Scotland and at Motherwell far longer it would cost more. So no chance of us signing him basically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d31 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I am not even convinced if he would represent value at £300k He'll likely go to england 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow-sheep Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Chris Cadden is out of contract so Motherwell can sing for it. Would probably be a case of a tribunal as happened with Ferguson. I’d imagine it’s fairly likely since McInnes likes players he knows. Finally the club are doing something about the atmosphere at Pittodrie Sorry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 8 hours ago, d31 said: I am not even convinced if he would represent value at £300k He'll likely go to england He was in the press yesterday saying: Quote "I’m in talks right now to see what’s happening and there will be a decision soon. I’m just keeping my options open. I’ve read about Doncaster in the paper but the only concrete offer is Motherwell. I need to just get my performances back up to standard and focus on getting fit again." Make of that what you will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, capt_oats said: He was in the press yesterday saying: Make of that what you will. I don't know whether we're in for him or not but it would be sensible to sort out any compensation before offering a contract. If he accepts an offer then we would be bound to pay an as yet unknown sum. Motherwell are perfectly entitled to to try to maximise their fee. If they've asked (if) for 600k then fair play. They are probably hoping for more like 450 and we would be hoping to pay no more than the development fee (previous rough estimate 180k). It ultimately depends on how much risk each side is prepared to take at tribunal compared to their worst case scenario. 180k amounts to a £3kpw wage for a year for Well. Would they be prepared to hold out and risk losing that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, coprolite said: I don't know whether we're in for him or not but it would be sensible to sort out any compensation before offering a contract. If he accepts an offer then we would be bound to pay an as yet unknown sum. Motherwell are perfectly entitled to to try to maximise their fee. If they've asked (if) for 600k then fair play. They are probably hoping for more like 450 and we would be hoping to pay no more than the development fee (previous rough estimate 180k). It ultimately depends on how much risk each side is prepared to take at tribunal compared to their worst case scenario. 180k amounts to a £3kpw wage for a year for Well. Would they be prepared to hold out and risk losing that? Unfortunately the compensation discussion only happens between the two clubs after the player has agreed to move: Quote F7 If, after the expiry of the term of his Contract of Service a Professional Player, to whom an offer in terms of Rules F5 and F6 has been made which is not accepted by him, is Registered for a new Club in circumstances where Rule F3 applies, then that new Club shall be liable to pay Compensation to the Player's former Club £180k is less than Aberdeen had to pay for Ferguson, it's less than Dundee United had to pay Rangers for Charlie Telfer. They didn't go to Tribunal because the clubs were happy to settle compensation but it's less than Brighton paid us for Ben Hall, it's considerably less than Leeds had to pay us for Lee Erwin. A reminder that Motherwell received £500k for an out of contract Erwin. The amount we're due to get from Rangers for Hastie is TBC but indications are it'll be more than £180k. In short, yes...Motherwell would be happy to take it to tribunal in that case. It would be quite unusual if a tribunal awarded a figure closer to the buying club's valuation, especially to that degree. The thing is Motherwell's £600k isn't an abstract valuation of "worth" it's worked out using FIFA's guidelines (which granted aren't enforceable in domestic moves like this in Scotland but everything points to them being used as reference). Unlike Accies with their mental "give us £1m for Lewis Ferguson" stance it's not about an amount that they're "hoping for" it's an amount that by FIFA rules they should be due. These are the criteria that are considered at tribunal (per SPFL rules (page 58)) and along with the precedents set with previous compensation fees in the case of Cadden the time spent at the club, playing record and international appearances stack up in Motherwell's favour especially when compared to the Ferguson tribunal which ended up with Aberdeen paying £237, 950. Which IIRC was more than double Aberdeen had originally offered Accies (though a bargain all the same): Quote F22 The criteria are:- F22.1 the age of the Player; F22.2 the amount of any transfer fee or Compensation paid by the Club losing the player’s Scottish FA Registration when acquiring the Scottish FA Registration of the Player; F22.3 the length of time during which the Club losing the player’s Scottish FA Registration held the Scottish FA Registration of the Player; F22.4 the terms of the new contract offered to the Player by each of the Clubs; F22.5 the Player’s playing record in club and international team appearances; and, F22.6 substantiated interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the services of the Player. I'm not saying Motherwell will *get* the £600k exactly. It may be £500k it may even be £400k but the chances are that the settlement would be closer to Motherwell's valuation than it would Aberdeen's (in your example). Given Aberdeen baulked at more than £400k for Louis Moult (an amount Motherwell still received more from Preston for him even with 6 months left on his contract) would they risk having to pay the same or more in full for Chris Cadden (payable within 28 days). I'd say the risk is probably going to be more on the buying club's side than Motherwell's. Edited May 15, 2019 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betting competition Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 12 hours ago, d31 said: we are certainly not signing Sam Nicholson Never say Never - we would only need to pay Colorado Rapids at the most £250,000 compensation cash to get him and he's on 4k a week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d31 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I agree with all that and thats why I'd say the Dons are unlikely to be interested 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 https://www.afc.co.uk/2019/05/15/afc-the-journey-accomplishments-aspirations-and-way-ahead/ This must have been the rumoured Wednesday PR thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 hours ago, capt_oats said: Unfortunately the compensation discussion only happens between the two clubs after the player has agreed to move: £180k is less than Aberdeen had to pay for Ferguson, it's less than Dundee United had to pay Rangers for Charlie Telfer. They didn't go to Tribunal because the clubs were happy to settle compensation but it's less than Brighton paid us for Ben Hall, it's considerably less than Leeds had to pay us for Lee Erwin. A reminder that Motherwell received £500k for an out of contract Erwin. The amount we're due to get from Rangers for Hastie is TBC but indications are it'll be more than £180k. In short, yes...Motherwell would be happy to take it to tribunal in that case. It would be quite unusual if a tribunal awarded a figure closer to the buying club's valuation, especially to that degree. The thing is Motherwell's £600k isn't an abstract valuation of "worth" it's worked out using FIFA's guidelines (which granted aren't enforceable in domestic moves like this in Scotland but everything points to them being used as reference). Unlike Accies with their mental "give us £1m for Lewis Ferguson" stance it's not about an amount that they're "hoping for" it's an amount that by FIFA rules they should be due. These are the criteria that are considered at tribunal (per SPFL rules (page 58)) and along with the precedents set with previous compensation fees in the case of Cadden the time spent at the club, playing record and international appearances stack up in Motherwell's favour especially when compared to the Ferguson tribunal which ended up with Aberdeen paying £237, 950. Which IIRC was more than double Aberdeen had originally offered Accies (though a bargain all the same): I'm not saying Motherwell will *get* the £600k exactly. It may be £500k it may even be £400k but the chances are that the settlement would be closer to Motherwell's valuation than it would Aberdeen's (in your example). Given Aberdeen baulked at more than £400k for Louis Moult (an amount Motherwell still received more from Preston for him even with 6 months left on his contract) would they risk having to pay the same or more in full for Chris Cadden (payable within 28 days). I'd say the risk is probably going to be more on the buying club's side than Motherwell's. 2 hours ago, d31 said: I agree with all that and thats why I'd say the Dons are unlikely to be interested Mainly agree except 2 points. Compo is payable after the new deal is signed but 2 sensible grown up clubs will try to agree an amount in advance. They don't have to agree but they will at least discuss it. I'm not convinced that the factors listed would not be offset by the fact that he's in the last year of his "youngster" status and can walk for nothing next year. But I also get the feeling that wigless wouldn't want to take the risk at tribunal. If Motherwell don't feel the need to agree a low fee then it's no deal. I'd want us to do the same in their position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: https://www.afc.co.uk/2019/05/15/afc-the-journey-accomplishments-aspirations-and-way-ahead/ This must have been the rumoured Wednesday PR thing. Before any fans of lesser clubs get in there: Does being a "Challenger club" mean we reached a high point in 1986 then disintegrated? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: https://www.afc.co.uk/2019/05/15/afc-the-journey-accomplishments-aspirations-and-way-ahead/ This must have been the rumoured Wednesday PR thing. Will read in more detail this afternoon but glad the club have done this. No doubt some folk will be raging about something in there though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: Will read in more detail this afternoon but glad the club have done this. No doubt some folk will be raging about something in there though. I'm having a read. Thought this part was particularly interesting: Many fans have asked how the Club managed to raise the £12 million to build this state-of-the-art facility, and if it has impacted our ability to invest in the football team. The Community Hub, Professional Training Campus and Youth Academy have been 100% underwritten by the directors and some friends of the Club. No bank debt was incurred to raise the investment needed and, since the start of the 2017/18 season, the First Team budget was increased by £1 million. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: I'm having a read. Thought this part was particularly interesting: Many fans have asked how the Club managed to raise the £12 million to build this state-of-the-art facility, and if it has impacted our ability to invest in the football team. The Community Hub, Professional Training Campus and Youth Academy have been 100% underwritten by the directors and some friends of the Club. No bank debt was incurred to raise the investment needed and, since the start of the 2017/18 season, the First Team budget was increased by £1 million. I noticed that and good to hear. Although notable by its absence was a plan to fund the new stadium. I am still keen to know what the plans are there. I'd also like to know how they believe the new stadium will grow the turnover so much as it seems ambitious. As does their AberDNA target as from what I see/hear the numbers signed up to that seem to be dropping, not growing. I also get the sense that club have realised a bit of unrest re Mcinnes amongst the support as they are keen to highlight everything the club has achieved in his time with us. Although I tend to agree it needs highlighted as some people can't see past the last performance on the pitch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: I noticed that and good to hear. Although notable by its absence was a plan to fund the new stadium. I am still keen to know what the plans are there. I'd also like to know how they believe the new stadium will grow the turnover so much as it seems ambitious. As does their AberDNA target as from what I see/hear the numbers signed up to that seem to be dropping, not growing. I also get the sense that club have realised a bit of unrest re Mcinnes amongst the support as they are keen to highlight everything the club has achieved in his time with us. Although I tend to agree it needs highlighted as some people can't see past the last performance on the pitch. Ach, I'm one of those mentioned in the last line. My opinion on McInnes changes every couple of weeks. Things are a bit stale but not quite stale enough that I'm shouting for change. Crucial transfer window ahead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: Ach, I'm one of those mentioned in the last line. My opinion on McInnes changes every couple of weeks. Things are a bit stale but not quite stale enough that I'm shouting for change. Crucial transfer window ahead. Nah I can accept the stale argument, even if I disagree. I think some more unhinged people would have you believe he's been a fraud from day 1 though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Nah I can accept the stale argument, even if I disagree. I think some more unhinged people would have you believe he's been a fraud from day 1 though. Twitter is mental after a defeat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betting competition Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Merkland Red said: https://www.afc.co.uk/2019/05/15/afc-the-journey-accomplishments-aspirations-and-way-ahead/ This must have been the rumoured Wednesday PR thing. Pretty bad when the club gets our league position in 2012/13 season wrong! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, betting competition said: Pretty bad when the club gets our league position in 2012/13 season wrong! Hahahaha never even noticed. Didn't realise it was that long ago that Hibs finished above us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, betting competition said: Pretty bad when the club gets our league position in 2012/13 season wrong! I didn't notice it was wrong but I did actually think to myself that I didn't remember us finishing at the heady heights of 7th under Craig Brown! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.