The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[Aberdeen Cowden]

26 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

 

Aberdeen offered Ross McCrorie the same exact wage and offer as Hibs. He choice to sign for Aberdeen. Both McInnes and McCrorie commented on this when he was unveiled at Cormack Park. Same applies to Curtis Main when he choice us over Hearts. Remember Hearts offered Boyce 6k a week in order to outbid us last January. This January, GMS was offered his salary in full whereas Aberdeen offered him a deal to defer his wages until the summer - both clubs offered him the same compensation package however. 

Prior to Covid, our annual turnover was nearly double that of Hibs. Even ignoring the corporate ticket sales, Aberdeen commercially do considerably better then both Edinburgh clubs. We sell tens of thousands more replica shirts each season (and all club shop merchandise) then both Hibs and Hearts - we sell more then some EPL side's such as Burnley. Where we do fall short is obviously our season ticket sales. Along with the replica shirt sales we also have a larger social media presence (numbers) then both Edinburgh sides which indicates we have the fanbase to compete with their average attendances. The 43,000 fans in attendance at our most league cup final win further backs this point. Aberdeen requested 50k tickets for the league cup final due to demand. Cormack believes decreasing the stadium capacity to 18k will help generate demand and subsequently increase season ticket sales/average attendances.

We have to change stadiums and ultimately win cups to attract larger crowds. After Hibs won the league cup under John Collins, their season ticket sales increased by 4k the following season.

 

The rumoured new stadium would be a game changer for Aberdeen. And I don’t mean the Kingsford nonsense.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I think fans of other clubs...especially those that see us as rivals for 3rd place.....are quite relieved and happy that McInnes has left. There's no club in the SPL outside the OF  (aside from probably Motherwell) that has come close to bettering us over the last 7 years. 

We also have a better record than any other club against Rangers since they got back into the top league. 

No wonder that there's a bit of surprise and delight that we've booted McInnes. 

Killie finished above you in 2018/19 - surely that counts as bettering you?

And the second point is also false, because we also have a better record against Rangers in that period. In the league, Aberdeen are P18 W3 D4 L11 and Killie are P17 W5 D5 L7 . Even if you extend that to all competitions, it's P21 W5 D5 L11 for Aberdeen and P20 W5 D6 L9 for Killie.

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Killie finished above you in 2018/19 - surely that counts as bettering you?

It was a moral victory for us, IMO. And GD doesn't count. IMO.

[HarleyQuinn]

16 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

The rumoured new stadium would be a game changer for Aberdeen. And I don’t mean the Kingsford nonsense.

The New stadium proposal by the City council would make much more sense for virtually every reason known to man. Supposedly it would cost 70 million.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

16 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Killie finished above you in 2018/19 - surely that counts as bettering you?

And the second point is also false, because we also have a better record against Rangers in that period. In the league, Aberdeen are P18 W3 D4 L11 and Killie are P17 W5 D5 L7 . Even if you extend that to all competitions, it's P21 W5 D5 L11 for Aberdeen and P20 W5 D6 L9 for Killie.

Sorry about the 2nd point, I was just posting something that I remember reading a year or so ago. I stand corrected. 

You misunderstand me though on my first point. I meant the record as a whole over the last 7 years. There's no team in the SPL outside the OF that has a positive win/loss record against Aberdeen since McInnes was appointed. (Probably Motherwell come closest but I suspect our record against them is marginally better over 7 years).

 

[Guest TheJTS98]

14 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

You misunderstand me though on my first point. I meant the record as a whole over the last 7 years. There's no team in the SPL outside the OF that has a positive win/loss record against Aberdeen since McInnes was appointed. (Probably Motherwell come closest but I suspect our record against them is marginally better over 7 years).

This comes back to the question of why would you have expected any to have such a record?

The natural competitors for Aberdeen in terms of resources have all had spells as bad as anything seen for a generation, while Aberdeen could just plough on building their squad with a settled management structure, European football etc. I'm not sure who would have been expected to build a winning record against Aberdeen in that time.

For context, if you had given Jimmy Calderwood the kind of Rangers, Hearts ,and Hibs situation that McInnes got, Aberdeen would have been the best team other than Celtic in the league every year from 2005 - 2009. Instead their high-point was one third-place finish in that spell. If he'd had that, allied to a post-Christmas run in Europe, it would be hard to argue McInnes was better than him. But Calderwood didn't get those circumstances. He had it harder.

Context matters. It's not his fault, and he didn't choose it. But the cards fell kindly for McInnes at Aberdeen.

Edited March 9, 2021 by TheJTS98

[paranoid android]

3 hours ago, CCB19035 said:

1 goal in 9. 
 

 Failed to score in 42% of games this season.

 

Both with the third biggest budget in the league and close to millions wasted on players in the last few years. 
 

But aye, sheer boredom. 

And this season you've sold McKenna, Cosgrove, and Wright for decent cash - in previous seasons, you've lost Shinnie, Hayes, Jack, McGinn, and McLean - all big players to lose.

[lubo_blaha]

As a Hibs fan I don't think Aberdeen will revert to the days of the early 90s at all. As you say Aberdeen have an infrastructure in place now much like Hibs and Hearts do in terms of Training Centre and Youth Academies.  You have also had your historical debt written off.
But lets be clear you do pay substantially more in salaries than Hibs or Hearts do thanks to money from your US backers.  Your current wages to turnover ratio is over 90% and that will have to be addressed as it is not sustainable. Where Hibs or Hearts are paying 3-6k a week (Hearts probably less just now in the Championship) for a 1st team player, you are up in the 5-8k  bracket and you have regularly outbid Hibs for players. 
Both Aberdeen and Hibs will likely be in Europe next year (realistically in the Europa Conference League groups)  and that will bring in much needed revenue. With a manager who doesn't play with the handbrake on like McInnes you could do very well both in the league and in terms of picking up European football cash.

Those figures are not accurate at all.

[Bogbrush1903]

4 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

Absolutely none of this is relevant to the point that circumstances fell into McIness' lap. Who is to blame makes no difference to the facts on the ground. Those facts being that Aberdeen had three of their biggest-spending rivals removed and weakened.

For example, 2014-15 Aberdeen had the biggest top-flight average crowds outside Celtic. The next best-attended club had approximately 50% smaller crowds than Aberdeen. Adding together the crowds of the three teams who finished immediately behind Aberdeen just about got to Aberdeen's crowds.

Given a bit of time, that's a situation you'd expect success from.

I should think the next Aberdeen coach would be delighted were the circumstances of 2012-14 to be repeated.

It should be also noted that the £12 million debt that hampered his predecessors was paid off in 2014 by Willie and Elaine Donald. Therefore, not only was the competition diluted during the early McInnes years but the club was on a financially sounder footing...

[Rodhull]

2 minutes ago, paranoid android said:

And this season you've sold McKenna, Cosgrove, and Wright for decent cash - in previous seasons, you've lost Shinnie, Hayes, Jack, McGinn, and McLean - all big players to lose.

So you're saying 1 goal in 9 is to be expected with the squad we have?

What about last season where we went the best part of 6 games without scoring even with those 3 players?

 

[HarleyQuinn]

3 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

This comes back to the question of why would you have expected any to have such a record?

The natural competitors for Aberdeen in terms of resources have all had spells as bad as anything seen for a generation, while Aberdeen could just plough on building their squad with a settled management structure, European football etc. I'm not sure who would have been expected to build a winning record against Aberdeen in that time.

For context, if you had given Jimmy Calderwood the kind of Rangers, Hearts ,and Hibs situation that McInnes got, Aberdeen would have been the best team other than Celtic in the league every year from 2005 - 2009. Instead their high-point was one third-place finish in that spell.

Context matters. It's not his fault, and he didn't choose it. But the cards fell kindly for McInnes at Aberdeen.

I'd also throw in the small matter of reaching the last 32 of the UEFA cup. A feat your club didn't achieve during that time nor ever has. Also Jimmy Calderwood wasn't backed the following season after finishing third which led to a lot of frustration amongst the dons support. Also during that Period Hearts would spending beyond their means under Romanov - busy finishing 2nd. I'll remind you once more, when The Rangers and Hearts respectively collapsed, Hibs and Dundee Utd (two sides that were direct rivals to Aberdeen throughout the 00's) were in the exact same position as Aberdeen. The difference was we finally appointed a competent manager who described Aberdeen FC as living in the prehistoric age when referring to training facilities, coaching, sports nutrition, scouting etc. Hibs and Hearts fans are absolutely gutted and bitter as all hell for what has transpired over the past 8 seasons. It essentially rectified a few wrongs in the 00's. With the added bonus of both Edinburgh clubs being relegated. Something Aberdeen have never endured.

[Guest TheJTS98]

2 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'd also throw in the small matter of reaching the last 32 of the UEFA cup. A feat your club didn't achieve during that time nor ever has. Also Jimmy Calderwood wasn't backed the following season after finishing third which led to a lot of frustration amongst the dons support. Also during that Period Hearts would spending beyond their means under Romanov - busy finishing 2nd. I'll remind you once more, when The Rangers and Hearts respectively collapsed, Hibs and Dundee Utd (two sides that were direct rivals to Aberdeen throughout the 00's) were in the exact same position as Aberdeen. The difference was we finally appointed a competent manager who described Aberdeen FC as living in the prehistoric age when referring to training facilities, coaching, sports nutrition, scouting etc. Hibs and Hearts fans are absolutely gutted and bitter as all hell for what has transpired over the past 8 seasons. It essentially rectified a few wrongs in the 00's. With the added bonus of both Edinburgh clubs being relegated. Something Aberdeen have never endured.

I edited to add that. And Hearts have in fact reached the last 8 of the UEFA Cup, so pull your socks up on your details there.

Not sure why you're taking such an aggressive tone, to be honest. Tends not to be much fun talking to people who reach for 'bitter' and 'gutted' and don't take time to get their facts straight. Good day to you.

[craigkillie]

25 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

You misunderstand me though on my first point. I meant the record as a whole over the last 7 years. There's no team in the SPL outside the OF that has a positive win/loss record against Aberdeen since McInnes was appointed. (Probably Motherwell come closest but I suspect our record against them is marginally better over 7 years).

Ah right, well there is almost certainly no side with a worse record against you than ours.

[lubo_blaha]

This comes back to the question of why would you have expected any to have such a record?
The natural competitors for Aberdeen in terms of resources have all had spells as bad as anything seen for a generation, while Aberdeen could just plough on building their squad with a settled management structure, European football etc. I'm not sure who would have been expected to build a winning record against Aberdeen in that time.
For context, if you had given Jimmy Calderwood the kind of Rangers, Hearts ,and Hibs situation that McInnes got, Aberdeen would have been the best team other than Celtic in the league every year from 2005 - 2009. Instead their high-point was one third-place finish in that spell. If he'd had that, allied to a post-Christmas run in Europe, it would be hard to argue McInnes was better than him. But Calderwood didn't get those circumstances. He had it harder.
Context matters. It's not his fault, and he didn't choose it. But the cards fell kindly for McInnes at Aberdeen.

Calderwood also had a much easier route to into the European group stages than McInnes ever did and we were quite fortunate to qualify from that group with 4 points from 4 games. Getting past Dnipro was probably equivalent to Rijeka or Groningen, although our poor coefficient meant we had another two rounds to get through after those. As you say, context matters.

[Bogbrush1903]

16 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

Calderwood also had a much easier route to into the European group stages than McInnes ever did and we were quite fortunate to qualify from that group with 4 points from 4 games. Getting past Dnipro was probably equivalent to Rijeka or Groningen, although our poor coefficient meant we had another two rounds to get through after those. As you say, context matters.

 

I was in Dnipro and Rijeka (alas not Groningen although I watched it on TV) and the Dnipro match was some effort. It was a full house and tasty atmosphere. Considering the squad of players we had at the time, that was, imo, Aberdeen's finest post-Fergie away European result.

However, Calderwood was fortunate in the groups that three teams qualified but that's not to discount the fine dismantling of Copenhagen and squaring up to Bayern Munich in the home leg in the last 32.

Having said that, Rijeka was a great night and unexpected victory in both its manner and comfort. I don't recall any stirring home European matches under McInnes. He never seemed to learn to use the home advantage sufficiently in Europe. His record wasn't particularly bad with regards home defeats (Real Sociedad and Rijeka second time around) but we seemed to struggle to really test defences at home (such as Skendija, Groningen, Kairat, Maribor, Burnley, Rijeka second time).

I actually felt, once we equalised against Burnley, that the tie was ours to lose. They were walking a tightrope and another goal from would have killed it. However, the conservative approach which marred the second half of his tenure, really prevented us going for the Burnley throat.

I think both in Europe and domestically, McInnes and the support will look back ruefully and consider what might have been. We just couldn't push on that little bit further...

Edited March 9, 2021 by Bogbrush1903

[paranoid android]

30 minutes ago, Rodhull said:

So you're saying 1 goal in 9 is to be expected with the squad we have?

What about last season where we went the best part of 6 games without scoring even with those 3 players?

 

This is over 8 years, mind - how many coaches go 8 years without the occasional bad run?

[DukDukGoose]

16 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

Calderwood also had a much easier route to into the European group stages than McInnes ever did and we were quite fortunate to qualify from that group with 4 points from 4 games. Getting past Dnipro was probably equivalent to Rijeka or Groningen, although our poor coefficient meant we had another two rounds to get through after those. As you say, context matters.

 

Dnipro betters any of McInnes' results IMO.

McInnes was a far better manager in almost every measureable metric.

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, paranoid android said:

This is over 8 years, mind - how many coaches go 8 years without the occasional bad run?

They're no longer occasional though. They were every season and the only way out of it was becoming hard to beat with direct, inefficient football. No matter the opposition.

[thruthenight]

33 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Ah right, well there is almost certainly no side with a worse record against you than ours.

We've only been in the league for 3 years, but Livi must be close.

[Golden Gordon]

7 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Having said that, Rijeka was a great night and unexpected victory in both its manner and comfort. I don't recall any stirring home European matches under McInnes. He never seemed to learn to use the home advantage sufficiently in Europe. His record wasn't particularly bad with regards home defeats (Real Sociedad and Rijeka second time around) but we seemed to struggle to really test defences at home (such as Skendija, Groningen, Kairat, Maribor, Burnley, Rijeka second time).

I actually felt, once we equalised against Burnley, that the tie was ours to lose. They were walking a tightrope and another goal from would have killed it. However, the conservative approach which marred the second half of his tenure, really prevented us going for the Burnley throat.

I think both in Europe and domestically, McInnes and the support will look back ruefully and consider what might have been. We just couldn't push on that little bit further...

Yep, it's been mentioned a few times on here by fans of other clubs that McInnes took us into Europe for seven successive seasons.  It's not to be sniffed at, but there was never any progress, season after season, beyond the qualifiers.  Qualifying for Europe became an end in itself, regardless of results in the competition or progress made.