The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[DunbartonshireRed]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

In the Norwegian 2nd tier. Theres absolutely no chance Aberdeen fans wouldve celebrated hiring, say, Ojan Bijan from Egersunds instead of Goodwin.

Probably because he has had no success at the club. Highest he's finidhed with them is 3rd and he's pumped out the early rounds of the cups in recent seasons. 

You seem to think i'm fascinated with Norway. What i'm saying is yoh need to be able to spot the Knutsens of the world before they become unobtainable. Wherever they may be. I seem to remember Celtic fans not being overly enthused when they appointed Postecoglou. Because they wanted Howe. Bet they're glad they went with Ange now. 

There will be managers in leagues not as big as Scotland, working on far smaller budgets than we can offer and would jump at the chance of managing us. And before you try and get smart, no I don't have names because it's not my job to have them. That's where the club need to be doing their due diligence. But when you have somebody with more experience on Booking.com than you have of being a DoF running the entire Football Operation at AFC i'd have my doubts that we have our finger on the pulse. 

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, DunbartonshireRed said:

There will be managers in leagues not as big as Scotland, working on far smaller budgets than we can offer and would jump at the chance of managing us. 

And do you think theyll get time to build anything before fans hound them out?

The guy I mentioned is on a similar track to Knutsen before he broke through at Bodo, yet youre already saying hes shite and not good enough in the same post as demanding your club finds someone following the same path as Knutsen

[DunbartonshireRed]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Win percentages must be up there as the most pointless metric for comparing managers. I haven't checked, but I'd guess Ally McCoist and Rowan Alexander might have two of the best win percentages in the history of Scottish football.

You've just brought Ally McCoist into this? The same Ally McCoist who had a budget thwt was in a different universe to all other teams he competed against and still couldn't get them into the Premiership at the first time of asking and also lost out in Tunnocks Teacake cup or whatever the f**k it was called on more than one occasion. 

Not comparable and not relevant. Goodbye. 

[Bogbrush1903]

13 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

In the Norwegian 2nd tier. Theres absolutely no chance Aberdeen fans wouldve celebrated hiring, say, Ojan Bijan from Egersunds instead of Goodwin.

 

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

I dont rate Goodwin but hes virtually had to rebuild your squad while simultaneously getting used to a brand new recruitment set up which takes 12+ months to really get going while also trying to put you in the top 3. Maybe give him longer than 10 months.

It's ok to say give him x amount of windows but he's got to show in-between those windows that he's building a decent squad that are playing for him.

We haven't seen in-between the summer window and this window that he's developing anything. Many of the players brought in the summer don't look particularly good and now we're talking about bringing in mid-30s defenders in this window when he got rid of Considine last season.

He'll need to get positive results. If the bad run of form continues then, whether ten months is long enough or not, he'll have to go.

If things go awry at Darvel, is head will be required immediately.

[coprolite]

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to identify a manager that's a good fit for a club. 

It's not like identifying players, where they can be observed playing. Even that's imperfect. A centre back that looks amazing in a three might be less solid in a two and be divisive in the dressing room, for example. 

But with managers it's even harder to tell what role(s) they're actually doing in their current job. How much of a say they have in recruitment is the obvious one, but also what the quality of the team around them is and how well they take advice. A continental head coach might not even pick the starting eleven, but a Scottish manager might have the final say on youth coach appointments. 

There are factors that might be outside their control that affect the team, like a long term youth policy producing a crop of first team ready players or saleable assets, or a potential rival ceasing to exist due to fraud. 

Then there's the context of the job as well. Someone who can get a plucky underdog punching above their weight might not have the skills to keep a bigger club in European places. 

Whoever said earlier in the thread that we should continually scout and diligence managers had a sound point, but it's not an easy job and there's a lot of uncertainty that can't be eliminated. 

Oh, and hindsight can't actually be used for appointing managers. 

[DunbartonshireRed]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

And do you think theyll get time to build anything before fans hound them out?

The guy I mentioned is on a similar track to Knutsen before he broke through at Bodo, yet youre already saying hes shite and not good enough in the same post as demanding your club finds someone following the same path as Knutsen

He's not following the same path at all. Knutsen had won 2 league titles in his career. Asane obviously didn't work out for him but then Glimt took him on as Assistant and then from there he proved he could lead the team. 

How many titles had this other bloke won? I'm guessing none. 

I know you love spending every night slapping it off your laptop screen whilst looking over Wyscout but some of us have better things to be doing. 

Goodwin was getting plenty of plaudits earlier in the season. Since he moved formation to this back 3 (which he also failed with at St Mirren) and results have gone downhill rapidly and he's not done anything about reversing our fortunes then hes he's had stick. I always think a manager deserves time if you can see what he's trying to do. Take Arteta at Arsenal. Some fans wanted him gone but others could see what he was trying to do. There was an identity to how they wanted to play. 

Goodwin came in and said the defence was an easy fix. If he meant it's easier to get worse then he was spot on. Our defence is worse than last season (when it was truly awful) and our attack is about as potent as a St Johnstone Ultras group. Toothless. There is no identity to how we play. Fans look at the team lineups and it's square pegs in round holes, they watch the games and they see passing about the back before Stewart inevitibly gives it away, they see a bench with no quality on it and players who play in positions we don't use. All of them brought to the club by Goodwin. Hope this clears it up for you. 

[DA Baracus]

Ultimately Goodwin is a shitebag as a manager far too often. From what I've seen, heard and read (admittedly haven't seen Aberdeen in person for years), he is the type of manager that his team absolutely shitting themselves in away games with the inevitable performances and results. 

 

He also quite clearly reveres Sevco and Celtic, to a sadly sycophantic degree, and gives them massive, and undue, respect, with the two recent games typifying this. 

 

Sadly these traits are far too common in Scottish football. 

[NathanDrake88]

1 hour ago, 1GregStewart said:

I don’t really see what was wrong with the appointment of Goodwin. Managed Alloa, then St Mirren so had learned the ropes at smaller clubs. 
Even when the Glass/Brown/Russell experiment was announced there was an awfa lot of excited people. The idea in itself was a bit intriguing and trying something different which everyone wanted. 
Because it didn’t work suddenly everyone is an expert and claims the appointments should never have happened.

Reality is all managerial appointments are a gamble. Occasionally you get lucky.

Seems quite straightforward that with such a major overhaul of the squad that Goodwin should get another couple of transfer windows. In the summer there were plenty saying it would take a few windows to get it right. 
 

It was a strange appointment as he hadn’t achieved anything with us really. He shat the bed getting us into the top 6. He played 3-5-2 for over half a season when it clearly wasn’t working and everyone bar him could see it.  He changed it and we went on a decent run, then Aberdeen came calling, and paid a hefty fee. All the things going wrong just now is stuff Saints fans seen during his time with us. Robbo is far and away a much better manager and tactician so we won a watch to be honest.

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, DunbartonshireRed said:

He's not following the same path at all. Knutsen had won 2 league titles in his career.

What league titles had Knutsen won before joining Bodo?

[DunbartonshireRed]

5 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to identify a manager that's a good fit for a club. 

It's not like identifying players, where they can be observed playing. Even that's imperfect. A centre back that looks amazing in a three might be less solid in a two and be divisive in the dressing room, for example. 

But with managers it's even harder to tell what role(s) they're actually doing in their current job. How much of a say they have in recruitment is the obvious one, but also what the quality of the team around them is and how well they take advice. A continental head coach might not even pick the starting eleven, but a Scottish manager might have the final say on youth coach appointments. 

There are factors that might be outside their control that affect the team, like a long term youth policy producing a crop of first team ready players or saleable assets, or a potential rival ceasing to exist due to fraud. 

Then there's the context of the job as well. Someone who can get a plucky underdog punching above their weight might not have the skills to keep a bigger club in European places. 

Whoever said earlier in the thread that we should continually scout and diligence managers had a sound point, but it's not an easy job and there's a lot of uncertainty that can't be eliminated. 

Oh, and hindsight can't actually be used for appointing managers. 

I think though that managers also have to be able to prove what philosophy they want to implement. I read somewhere that Rodgers got interviewed at Celtic and presented like a 100 page dossier on where he wanted to take the club, the player profiles he wanted and the time it would take to reach the goals he set out. Nobody is saying "just go and get this guy" but have a structured interview process where they can put across their visions for the club and the direction in which they want to take the club. I, for one, don't believe we've done anything like this. We hired Glass because, well we all know why, and Goodwin on the basis of a decent run he was on at the time. 

We never got the new manager "bounce", he told players they weren't wanted before the end of the season. Just things didn't sit right with me. 

If Goodwin was to get sacked, which won't happen before St Johnstone at home, in my opinion, then i'd rather we took our time and had a through process to get the right man. And yes, that means locking Cormack in his basement in Atlanta and not letting him near the prawcess. 

[DunbartonshireRed]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

What league titles had Knutsen won before joining Bodo?

Hovding. He got them promoted twice. They may not have been titles in fairness as I don't know the setup but he got them promoted twice in 9 years. 

[Thenorthernlight]

22 minutes ago, DunbartonshireRed said:

I think though that managers also have to be able to prove what philosophy they want to implement. I read somewhere that Rodgers got interviewed at Celtic and presented like a 100 page dossier on where he wanted to take the club, the player profiles he wanted and the time it would take to reach the goals he set out. Nobody is saying "just go and get this guy" but have a structured interview process where they can put across their visions for the club and the direction in which they want to take the club. I, for one, don't believe we've done anything like this. We hired Glass because, well we all know why, and Goodwin on the basis of a decent run he was on at the time. 

We never got the new manager "bounce", he told players they weren't wanted before the end of the season. Just things didn't sit right with me. 

If Goodwin was to get sacked, which won't happen before St Johnstone at home, in my opinion, then i'd rather we took our time and had a through process to get the right man. And yes, that means locking Cormack in his basement in Atlanta and not letting him near the prawcess. 

Unfortunately it’s Cormack & Gunn (who severely lacks the experience to be a DoF) who’ll be deciding any new manager.

I have zero faith in them to get the next one right either.

It wouldn’t surprise me to see them appoint someone like Neil Lennon, just in case they thought the fan base weren’t disenchanted enough. 

[RandomGuy.]

55 minutes ago, DunbartonshireRed said:

Hovding. He got them promoted twice. They may not have been titles in fairness as I don't know the setup but he got them promoted twice in 9 years. 

From the 5th tier of Norwegian football.

What youre arguing here is a mid-table Championship manager is worse than someone getting a team promoted, through the play offs, of the EOS Division.

[DunbartonshireRed]

1 hour ago, Thenorthernlight said:

Unfortunately it’s Cormack & Gunn (who severely lacks the experience to be a DoF) who’ll be deciding any new manager.

I have zero faith in them to get the next one right either.

It wouldn’t surprise me to see them appoint someone like Neil Lennon, just in case they thought the fan base weren’t disenchanted enough. 

I don't dispute that. It's exactly what'll happen. But they'll deserve everything they get. 

[Irrational Behaviour]

Let's face it, we're appointing David Zdrillic when Goodwin goes. 

[DunbartonshireRed]

28 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

From the 5th tier of Norwegian football.

What youre arguing here is a mid-table Championship manager is worse than someone getting a team promoted, through the play offs, of the EOS Division.

He was a young manager in his first post. He got 2 promotions. And his career been on an upward trajectory since. He's held different roles within clubs so he'll know the attributes and qualities he wants in his staff and he'll get the best out of those people. But you obviously think i'm championing Knutsen for the job. Get it through your head. I'm not. What i want is a manager who's got no previous experience in Scotland. Somebody who can bring fresh ideas, who doesn't park the bus at home against Celtic and still gets beat. 

A club like Aberdeen (same with Hearts and Hibs) should be able to attract these types of guys. Guys who want to work in the UK but probably need to prove themselves first before teams in England take the chance. 

[AJF]

55 minutes ago, DunbartonshireRed said:

What i want is a manager who's got no previous experience in Scotland. Somebody who can bring fresh ideas, who doesn't park the bus at home against Celtic and still gets beat.

Without having any exact figures to hand, I’d hazard a guess that there are far more managers that have arrived with no experience in Scotland that have flopped compared to those that have succeeded.

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, AJF said:

Without having any exact figures to hand, I’d hazard a guess that there are far more managers that have arrived with no experience in Scotland that have flopped compared to those that have succeeded.

Its great isnt it?

"Why doesnt the club just hire a promising young manager from abroad before they break through?"

As if every club on the planet isnt actively trying that and its near impossible to find any decent options never mind have any success with them.

[Bogbrush1903]

2 hours ago, Thenorthernlight said:

Unfortunately it’s Cormack & Gunn (who severely lacks the experience to be a DoF) who’ll be deciding any new manager.

This is the problem, and we don't even know how much of an input Gunn has in the decision.

Goodwin was appointed with undue haste, like Cormack just wanted the managerial vacancy issue to be addressed quickly without due diligence to the successor.

Goodwin certainly hadn't impressed much in his managerial career up until he was appointed Aberdeen manager.

Consequently, I was left thinking well maybe he's thought highly of in the game as a manager and tipped for the top.

However, in the ten months since he's made error of judgement after error of judgement and occasionally he says he's learning when the evidence suggests he's doing anything but learning.

I'm now of the mind that we should bring an experienced man in and invite him to take his preferred successor with him and let's see if we can adopt succession planning rather than this random inexperienced appointments every twelve months.

Cormack though must, if he is to have a successful tenure, take a step back and allow the football operations to be run by football men.

He can still involve himself in the side projects, such as the pipedream new stadium, but leave the footballing aspect well alone...

[coprolite]

13 minutes ago, AJF said:

Without having any exact figures to hand, I’d hazard a guess that there are far more managers that have arrived with no experience in Scotland that have flopped compared to those that have succeeded.

Probably true, but the question shouldn't be whether more foreign managers flop than succeed but whether a specific foreign manager is any more likely to flop than rival candidates for a particular job who have experience in Scotland. 

I expect there's probably advantages to having experience of our league and probably advantages to coming at it without preconceptions. Whether those effects are greater than an individuals attributes and fit for any given job is a different question. 

Most managers fail, and almost all fail in the long run at at least one club. 

Last time Scotland were looking for a manager i heard some paid pundit opining that we had to go Scottish as we'd tried a foreign manager before and it didn't work out. We have a larger sample size at club level but not by a huge amount and i doubt we'd be looking at a statistically valid conclusion even if we could accurately define success. 

Tl/dr- it's not where they're from, it's where they're at.