The Famous Aberdeen - Season 2022/23

[d31]

I'm also excited about the maloney signing.

 

In terms of the centre back there is certainly something that doesnt add up with the bargain trialists. 

Centre back was our weakest position last season so to be signing so many attacking players and offering fees for more certainly seems at odds with that.

 

[RussellAnderson]

Just now, d31 said:

I'm also excited about the maloney signing.

 

In terms of the centre back there is certainly something that doesnt add up with the bargain trialists. 

Centre back was our weakest position last season so to be signing so many attacking players and offering fees for more certainly seems at odds with that.

 

It seems to be a universally weak position at the moment, throughout our level of football. Anyone with any technique is too weak to compete with big forwards, and anyone with a bit of strength can't control or pass it for shit. For that reason, I was disappointed to lose Ash Taylor. Not because he's a particularly good player, but because of a lack of obvious replacements. Better the devil you know and all that. 

It makes sense, as has been said, that McInnes probably has someone in mind that will become available later on, and is only looking at these guys with a view to a cheap/short term deal to cover the Euro games. I'm anticipating the one "emergency" registration to come in the next couple of days. Whether or not its a short term gap, or a longer term signing like Moult, I'm unsure. 

[anotherchance]

Signing a completely random trialist from foreign shores to cover us until we get our main target is literally the most un-McInnes thing I can think of.

In Maynard's presser he said him signing had been dragging on for ages - it's more likely there's similar dealings in the pipeline for a centre back which might be announced out of the blue without warning.

Heard a wee whisper today that we're now in direct touch with the Cypriot club over Arnason, so hopefully something comes of that.

[DrewDon]

I wouldn't prioritise bringing in a new left-back at the moment; Considine's statistics were very favourable last season, and he balances the defence well with Logan on the other side. McInnes appears to rate Harvie very highly so I imagine that will be the continuity plan for some time down the line. 

We definitely need a centre-back, though. O'Connor/Reynolds is a decent enough SPFL Premiership partnership, but to challenge again for second and with any aspirations to go further in Europe than we have in the past couple of seasons we will likely require an upgrade on one of them. Interestingly, I was reading that O'Connor had the second best aerial success rate of centre-backs in the league last season (behind Taylor). 

I hope we continue our pursuit of Moult. There is undoubtedly a role for Rooney in our squad, but my gut feeling is that he will struggle more this year without service from Hayes and McGinn. Rooney also just had a relatively poor season all told, and McInnes obviously doesn't fully trust him in some 'big' matches - but, for those occasions, we need a better alternative than Stockley. 

[capt_oats]

In case it's of interest that's Alan Burrows mentioned to a boy on Twitter that there's been no change with the Moult situation and that Motherwell's position still remains the same as it was on Friday, which I'd imagine is: Aberdeen's offer has been rejected, the bid was nowhere near the valuation and that there's still a contract extension on the table for him at Fir Park.

No mention as to whether we're "bracing" ourselves for a new bid or anything like that. Not that I'd expect him to say that publicly or anything but you know what I mean.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by capt_oats

[RussellAnderson]

6 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

In case it's of interest that's Alan Burrows mentioned to a boy on Twitter that there's been no change with the Moult situation and that Motherwell's position still remains the same as it was on Friday, which I'd imagine is: Aberdeen's offer has been rejected, the bid was nowhere near the valuation and that there's still a contract extension on the table for him at Fir Park.

No mention as to whether we're "bracing" ourselves for a new bid or anything like that. Not that I'd expect him to say that publicly or anything but you know what I mean.

 

What's this Burrows guy's actual job title? His social media account seems to work as a really honest mouthpiece for the club, pretty refreshing compared to the stilted Official Statements usually put out by clubs. 

Also he reminds me of Andy Burrows, drummer from Razorlight and, briefly, We Are Scientists. Which is always nice to think about. 

[capt_oats]

26 minutes ago, RussellAnderson said:

What's this Burrows guy's actual job title? His social media account seems to work as a really honest mouthpiece for the club, pretty refreshing compared to the stilted Official Statements usually put out by clubs. 

Also he reminds me of Andy Burrows, drummer from Razorlight and, briefly, We Are Scientists. Which is always nice to think about. 

Official job title is Chief Operating Officer he was promoted from General Manager last year but essentially that's his role. There was a bit about him in the Sunday Mail earlier today actually. It's here if you can don't mind giving them the click: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/motherwell-chief-alan-burrows-reflects-10762063

I'm very much in agreement, he actually gets the balance right IMO. Obviously the official club Twitter account can't reply to a guy asking about transfer speculation but I think he uses his Twitter pretty well to get information out that's of interest but in an "unofficial" way. There are a few folk in our fanbase who have a hang up about it and a few accusations of him being "unprofessional" in doing so but there are obvious questions that fans want to ask that aren't necessarily going to be able to be picked up by "official" channels so I think he does a really good job of keeping fans informed.

Having said that there are certain fans who seem to tweet him on an daily basis, I can't believe he doesn't just mute them as it'd do my nut in getting hassle from folk about everything from strips to transfers to season tickets and everything in between.

Edited July 9, 2017 by capt_oats

[highland_mechanic]

I wonder if we were close to snapping up Mikey Devlin from Hamilton but because he got a really, really bad injury late in the season the plan is to bring in a stop-gap until January when Devlin is more likely to be available?

[Illgresi]

20 minutes ago, highland_mechanic said:

I wonder if we were close to snapping up Mikey Devlin from Hamilton but because he got a really, really bad injury late in the season the plan is to bring in a stop-gap until January when Devlin is more likely to be available?

Devlin has some ability (he arguably won the game for Hamilton when they won 1-0 down there), but he's more the O'Connor type of centre back, rather than the more cultured type. I would expect him to be on McInnes' list, but not necessarily near the top.

[jim999]

It seems to be a universally weak position at the moment, throughout our level of football. Anyone with any technique is too weak to compete with big forwards, and anyone with a bit of strength can't control or pass it for shit. For that reason, I was disappointed to lose Ash Taylor. Not because he's a particularly good player, but because of a lack of obvious replacements. Better the devil you know and all that. 
It makes sense, as has been said, that McInnes probably has someone in mind that will become available later on, and is only looking at these guys with a view to a cheap/short term deal to cover the Euro games. I'm anticipating the one "emergency" registration to come in the next couple of days. Whether or not its a short term gap, or a longer term signing like Moult, I'm unsure. 

Totally agree. Why don't Scottish sides produce decent centre backs anymore?

[RussellAnderson]

Totally agree. Why don't Scottish sides produce decent centre backs anymore?

Honestly, I'd include English football to that claim too. I don't know enough about the rest of the world, but when players like John Stones and Harry Maguire are going for mega bucks down south, you know that something is wrong with the overall quality.

I also can't claim to know anything about coaching methods having never really played the game, but there's obviously an issue with how kids are trained for the position. I'd guess that there's too much of a weight placed on physicality, even at a young age when kids are likely to develop at very different rates. It's not something that's easy to sort out though, considering how entrenched in their ways old coaches will be.

[10menwent2mow]

We only conceded 35 goals in the league last season. Don't know why everyone seems to think the defence was weak

[jim999]

Honestly, I'd include English football to that claim too. I don't know enough about the rest of the world, but when players like John Stones and Harry Maguire are going for mega bucks down south, you know that something is wrong with the overall quality.

I also can't claim to know anything about coaching methods having never really played the game, but there's obviously an issue with how kids are trained for the position. I'd guess that there's too much of a weight placed on physicality, even at a young age when kids are likely to develop at very different rates. It's not something that's easy to sort out though, considering how entrenched in their ways old coaches will be.

I think training methods and systems will be a big part of it. It's not really the way now to pick the big aggressive lad and just get him to attack everyone and everything. To defend first and worry about playing football afterwards.
That maybe makes me sound like a bit of a dinosaur I suppose.
Getting fired into tackles and putting the head where it hurts isn't really the way in modern football.

When you think of Scottish teams in the recent past, Mcleish, Narey, Gough, Hendry etc and compare it to the shite playing now?

Every fan loves a player in their team who is a nasty ball winner but they are rare now. It's out of fashion. Dons had Russell Anderson who was of that mould but he got ignored by Scotland. I remember being a Pittodrie for a game against Timmy when Anderson put it one of the best crunching slide tackles I've ever seen on ,I think, Graveson inside the box. The cheer inside the ground was as good as a goal.

[RussellAnderson]

We only conceded 35 goals in the league last season. Don't know why everyone seems to think the defence was weak

And this is the other reason why I would have kept Taylor. If it ain't broke...

If our squad last year had been up against Deila's Celtic, we would have pushed them all the way for the league. There was very little we could have done against Rogers' team (in the league. Obviously Hayes could have fucking passed to McLean properly to make it 2-1... [emoji31][emoji31][emoji31])

[RussellAnderson]

I think training methods and systems will be a big part of it. It's not really the way now to pick the big aggressive lad and just get him to attack everyone and everything. To defend first and worry about playing football afterwards.
That maybe makes me sound like a bit of a dinosaur I suppose.
Getting fired into tackles and putting the head where it hurts isn't really the way in modern football.

When you think of Scottish teams in the recent past, Mcleish, Narey, Gough, Hendry etc and compare it to the shite playing now?

Every fan loves a player in their team who is a nasty ball winner but they are rare now. It's out of fashion. Dons had Russell Anderson who was of that mould but he got ignored by Scotland. I remember being a Pittodrie for a game against Timmy when Anderson put it one of the best crunching slide tackles I've ever seen on ,I think, Graveson inside the box. The cheer inside the ground was as good as a goal.

I'm not of an age to remember the "Golden Age of Centre Halves". Big Russell is my benchmark.

I think the development in attacking play has made the big get centre halves more exposed. The pitches are smoother, the balls are lighter, the players are fitter and faster. It's harder to defend against attackers like this. There are too many variables to compare between eras like that IMO.

Managers also want a certain level of distribution from their centre halves so, like you say, there's less focus on defending and more on other aspects of the game. I don't know how the game played out back in the days of Miller/McLeish, but you rarely see attacking moves start from the back in highlights. This is pretty common these days.

[RussellAnderson]

The Gravesen tackle is in here. FWIW, I don't see that as an example of the old style centre back play, he makes the tackle, and calmly puts his foot on it, and moves it short. This is what modern managers want from their ball playing centre halves.

It's a fantastic compilation though [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]

[Dons_1988]

The British game seems to have a confusion about centre halves.

The hipsters want the ball playing pep guardiola mould of defender, the old school want the John terry type who puts his head into anything.

My ideal defender is a maldini (or a Russell Anderson). Positionally sound, reads the game, leads the rest of the back 4. Doesn't make last ditch tackles because he never puts himself in that situation.

[Dons_1988]

 

 

The Gravesen tackle is in here. FWIW, I don't see that as an example of the old style centre back play, he makes the tackle, and calmly puts his foot on it, and moves it short. This is what modern managers want from their ball playing centre halves.

 

It's a fantastic compilation though [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]

 

Oh that's beautiful.

 

I was thinking the other day, imagine deilas Celtic up against mcinnes' Aberdeen side plus joe Lewis, plus a Russell Anderson in his prime.

 

Just imagine it.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

41 minutes ago, RussellAnderson said:

 

I'm not of an age to remember the "Golden Age of Centre Halves". Big Russell is my benchmark.

I think the development in attacking play has made the big get centre halves more exposed. The pitches are smoother, the balls are lighter, the players are fitter and faster. It's harder to defend against attackers like this. There are too many variables to compare between eras like that IMO.

Managers also want a certain level of distribution from their centre halves so, like you say, there's less focus on defending and more on other aspects of the game. I don't know how the game played out back in the days of Miller/McLeish, but you rarely see attacking moves start from the back in highlights. This is pretty common these days.

 

 

There's also the fact that in general, a good centre-half doesn't develop in the game until he's in his late 20's or even into his 30's.

You get very, very few world class centre-halves who are 19 or 20 or 21. It's always been the case.

In Scotland we don't have the patience to allow players to develop. Clubs would rather sign an average 29 year old foreigner than keep the faith with a Scottish 20 year old with potential.

I think many (potentially) good Scottish defenders are being cast aside these days.

[RussellAnderson]

 
There's also the fact that in general, a good centre-half doesn't develop in the game until he's in his late 20's or even into his 30's.
You get very, very few world class centre-halves who are 19 or 20 or 21. It's always been the case.
In Scotland we don't have the patience to allow players to develop. Clubs would rather sign an average 29 year old foreigner than keep the faith with a Scottish 20 year old with potential.
I think many (potentially) good Scottish defenders are being cast aside these days.

We certainly did it with Joe Shaughnessy, although he isn't Scottish. Maybe there's an opportunity to utilise long-term loans, to help then develop in a stable environment.