optimistic Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Dumbarton were terrible, but does that say queens were equally good? I think queens have signed very well and I expect them to be top half easy, as for us, yeah it was poor in poor conditions, but its only two games against two strong full time teams who have both signed well, as I think so have we, let's just hope this is our bad spell, if not I trust in Murray to change it, and I'm not buying into this jack Ross was the brains of the operation, as Boozy has came with a really good reputation of being a coach, plenty of time to turn it around, and to be honest, beating alloa and Cowdenbeath will always be the target at this moment in the league and 8th being the target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the snudge Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 That was pish yesterday. The sooner we go back to the old tactics the better. At least then we had a chance of outscoring the opposition. ANish is done. He offers nothing of any note.is rogers any better than the keepers we have? Constantly kicking into a strong wind just piled pressure on us. He shouldve been rolling the ball out to the full backs. Im dreading the trip to ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the snudge Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Oh and well done qots for a cracking performance and fowlers goal was superbly taken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 That was pish yesterday. The sooner we go back to the old tactics the better. At least then we had a chance of outscoring the opposition. ANish is done. He offers nothing of any note.is rogers any better than the keepers we have? Constantly kicking into a strong wind just piled pressure on us. He shouldve been rolling the ball out to the full backs. Im dreading the trip to ibrox. For the keeper to have rolled it to the full backs they would have had to make themselves available. And they didn't. A lot of criticism of Murray's tactics on here but the players must take a lot of the blame for the goals we have lost in the first two games. Last week a stupid free kick given away on the edge of the box for the second and giving the ball away in the middle for the third. Yesterday a short pass back for the first a poor kick out followed by no challenge for the third and giving the ball away in the middle again for the fourth.None of these goals were as a result of the tactics. Lack of control and poor passing is not down to tactics either. Anyway it's early days and if Murray is half the manager we think he is he'll adapt and improve. Losing easily to queen of the south is not exactly a new experience. I thought they were the best team we played last season and yesterday they continued where they left off. And we have to remember that staying up is the aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeSons Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 For the keeper to have rolled it to the full backs they would have had to make themselves available. And they didn't. A lot of criticism of Murray's tactics on here but the players must take a lot of the blame for the goals we have lost in the first two games. Last week a stupid free kick given away on the edge of the box for the second and giving the ball away in the middle for the third. Yesterday a short pass back for the first a poor kick out followed by no challenge for the third and giving the ball away in the middle again for the fourth.None of these goals were as a result of the tactics. Lack of control and poor passing is not down to tactics either. Anyway it's early days and if Murray is half the manager we think he is he'll adapt and improve. Losing easily to queen of the south is not exactly a new experience. I thought they were the best team we played last season and yesterday they continued where they left off. And we have to remember that staying up is the aim. To say the goals were nothing to do with Murray's tactics is totally incorrect, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 To say the goals were nothing to do with Murray's tactics is totally incorrect, I'm afraid. Good detailed point well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Man for man QoS were better from 1 thro to 11, and beyond into the subs. When you get that situation there is only ever going to be one winner, and I'm afraid that is going to be an often repeated experience for Sons fans this season. QoS are a very decent side, but they won't be top three. The calibre of teams in this Division is the strongest ever and we simply don't have the playing personnel to compete in most fixtures or the finances to alter that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeSons Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Good detailed point well made. I've written several detailed posts explaining why the tactics contributed to the goals. If you bother to read the rest of the thread, you'd know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel wickson Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 For the keeper to have rolled it to the full backs they would have had to make themselves available. And they didn't. A lot of criticism of Murray's tactics on here but the players must take a lot of the blame for the goals we have lost in the first two games. Last week a stupid free kick given away on the edge of the box for the second and giving the ball away in the middle for the third. Yesterday a short pass back for the first a poor kick out followed by no challenge for the third and giving the ball away in the middle again for the fourth.None of these goals were as a result of the tactics. Lack of control and poor passing is not down to tactics either. Anyway it's early days and if Murray is half the manager we think he is he'll adapt and improve. Losing easily to queen of the south is not exactly a new experience. I thought they were the best team we played last season and yesterday they continued where they left off. And we have to remember that staying up is the aim. Undoubtedly individual mistakes contributed to the scoreline, but the players look utterly lost within the formation we are playing. Do you think there is any sign that after four competitive games, the players are adapting to the new style and tempo of play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Undoubtedly individual mistakes contributed to the scoreline, but the players look utterly lost within the formation we are playing. Do you think there is any sign that after four competitive games, the players are adapting to the new style and tempo of play? No there isnt much sign of that although there wasnt a great deal wrong with the first half at Kirkcaldy or Stranraer. My point was directed at posters who were suggesting the poor performances were entirely down to Murray's tactics. No matter what the tactics are the manager can't be held responsible for bad passing and four of the seven goals we have conceded have been down to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishyeltz Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 QoS are a very decent side, but they won't be top three. The calibre of teams in this Division is the strongest ever and we simply don't have the playing personnel to compete in most fixtures or the finances to alter that situation. With three part-time teams in the division this season, it certainly IS NOT the strongest ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel wickson Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I know we all see games differently, and mine might be a minority view, but I honestly wouldn't have rated our play any higher than "okay" in the first half at Kirkcaldy. It seemed to go off a cliff, once the first goal went in. While I think we should always expect as a minimum from the players, a modicum of application and a mastery of the most basic skills, is it possible that the number of mistakes being made and general all round poor play are related to the fact that they are either (a) way out of their comfort zone, (b) lack confidence in what the managerial team are asking them to do, or © simply don't understand the roles that they are being asked to adopt? I think last season showed that the latter half of season 2012/13 wasn't a flash in the pan, or down to the oft-seen new manager "bounce". The players and management deserve every ounce of praise that has come their way for those performances, but I'd like to know why it is now necessary to adopt a new approach? Are we aiming to better last season's league finish, because the pragmatist in me thinks that is unrealistic. A season of consolidation would suit me fine, until this season's "freak show" is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 With three part-time teams in the division this season, it certainly IS NOT the strongest ever. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Three of Scottish football's big beasts playing in a division outwith the top tier would suggest it is. You tell me a year that was stronger though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 It must be something about managers, yours seems to be a bit like ours was last season in that he's started to tinker with something that wasn't broken. In the last two games we've played our best formation and the results and performances speak for themselves. Having said that in both games he reverted to "his favoured formation of 4-2-3-1in the last 15mins. Surprise, surprise we didn't score in either game once he'd changed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Murray has brought in a lot of his own men during the summer. Extra coaches, new physio and the new assistant. These guys will all have a say during training and that will help inform how Murray sets his team out. In our position it's all about the result first and the performance second - I'd love to watch us play great football but not at the expense of winning games. Now so far we haven't played even remotely well - the Brechin game was poor, the Raith game was disappointing and yesterday was dreadful - but there are a few common strands to all these games. The shorter passes. The desire to retain possession even if it means putting the ball back to the keeper. The attempts to play our way out of trouble at the back rather than clearing it long and then trying to win the ball back in midfield. I also dislike the way we've set our side out: we either play with 2 wide midfielders and nobody in the centre or 2 narrow midfielders and nobody out wide. Megginson doesn't look comfortable coming inside and playing as a central midfielder. Neither Agnew nor Kirkpatrick look comfortable out wide. Everybody seems to get in Turner's way and you have 2 guys going for the same ball and getting tangled with each other. Some of that is poor decision making and a lack of out and out talent but a big part of it is also down to the way Murray is setting the team up and asking them to play. We looked really uncomfortable yesterday. There was rarely a telling outlet pass forward when we had the ball. We looked harassed on the ball and the QotS players did well to close us down, making the panic worse as the ball wide to a winger wasn't an option. If Murray wanted to change the way we played then he shouldn't have brought back so many of last year's squad. Nish is finished but we don't look like dropping him. At least with Prunty you know what you'll get - a forward who can give as good as he gets from defenders and who'll work like a Trojan. Same with Gils - he might not deliver the perfect ball every time but you know you'll get running from him and you know he'll give his fullback a bit of protection. Gils does a lot of good defensive work that doesn't always get noticed and he's pretty good at tracking players and making sure they don't find too much space. I'd hope that Murray rethinks they way he sets the team out. If we don't have the players to play his ideal formation then he needs to change the formation because he didn't take advantage of the chance to bring in different players. Right now he's trying to force square pegs into round holes. The players obviously aren't comfortable and it's making things far tougher for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmy_cammy Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Do you think we will stick with 4-4-2 for Ibrox Hawk? Do you think we should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERSOUTH Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Do you think we will stick with 4-4-2 for Ibrox Hawk? Do you think we should?We have to play to our strengths at Ibrox and have a go at the mid table team even tho we are the away team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 It must be something about managers, yours seems to be a bit like ours was last season in that he's started to tinker with something that wasn't broken. In the last two games we've played our best formation and the results and performances speak for themselves. Having said that in both games he reverted to "his favoured formation of 4-2-3-1in the last 15mins. Surprise, surprise we didn't score in either game once he'd changed it. We changed before the third and fourth goals, Lyle was playing deeper than an out and out forward. Do you think we will stick with 4-4-2 for Ibrox Hawk? Do you think we should? Interesting question. Under normal circumstances, I would say its a stick on the McIntryre would revert to five in midfield. However, with Kerr, Burns and McKenna all out his hand might be forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmy_cammy Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 A lot depends on the results and performances against Livi but if we continue picking up wins lining up 4-4-2 I say stick with it and have a go at them. I generally encourage the idea of altering tactics dependent on the opposition, but this Rangers team are nothing special. If it doesn't work we'll know for next time. It's not like a cup tie were we need to keep it tight for a potential replay. If he decides to revert to a midfield 5 I certainly won't have a meltdown over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERSOUTH Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 We changed before the third and fourth goals, Lyle was playing deeper than an out and out forward. Interesting question. Under normal circumstances, I would say its a stick on the McIntryre would revert to five in midfield. However, with Kerr, Burns and McKenna all out his hand might be forced. Kerr will be fit by then but maybe not completely up too match speed/fitness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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