Dumbarton v QOS

[FifeSons]

Must admit I find it hard to blame the players for that shite. Linton's back pass was brought on by having zero other options, which is Murray's fault I'm afraid.

Surely to god the loss of McGinn and Ross and hasn't caused this? We really have been an utter shitfest thus far which isn't down to the players, it's down to the management. We have the exact same squad as last year, the only difference is that they are playing is some sort of top European club clipboard formation which quite clearly is going dreadfully wrong. I suppose it's now where we find out if Murray is man enough to concede deafeat to this nonsense or whether he'll stubbornly try to stick with something that clearly doesn't work, in the fuckin slightest.

These tactics have clearly been geared towards us playing the three big teams this season. Is he really going to drop them now for the Rangers game? Not a chance. I think far too much thought has gone into dealing with Rangers, Hearts and Hibs this season. Playing the way we did last season would easily see us take points off the likes of Livi, Alloa and Cowden, that we need for survival.

On another note, I always think it's disgraceful for anyone to leave the game early, and was disgusted to see so many people flock towards the exits after the 3rd and 4th goals.

Oh, and the dickhead that was booing Rogers for the third goal shouldn't bother coming back.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

I will say it once again. Derek Lyle has been a wonderful player for QoS stretching all the way back to 2001.

[Hawk]

I will say it once again. Derek Lyle has been a wonderful player for QoS stretching all the way back to 2001.

I thought our front two of Lyle and in particular Reilly were superb today. We were terrific as a team but Reilly's work rate and the shutdown and lay in for Lyles opener along with his lovely cushioned lay off for Russell and his own good header just made him MOM for me.

Can't believe how much Dumbarton seem to have gone back since last season. I really do fear for them this term.

[Jan Vojáček]

On another note, I always think it's disgraceful for anyone to leave the game early, and was disgusted to see so many people flock towards the exits after the 3rd and 4th goals.

Oh, and the dickhead that was booing Rogers for the third goal shouldn't bother coming back.

The amount of abuse Danny in particular was getting from the people around me was not on. There's airing frustration eg "That's not good enough" and there's pointless foaming at the mouth seethe "Booooooooo, drap him, wurst ever, we had Grindlay/Ewings in we'd nevar have loast this"

[FifeSons]

The amount of abuse Danny in particular was getting from the people around me was not on. There's airing frustration eg "That's not good enough" and there's pointless foaming at the mouth seethe "Booooooooo, drap him, wurst ever, we had Grindlay/Ewings in we'd nevar have loast this"

I heard that as well. The irony is, that these are the same idiots who would give Ewings and Grindlay pelters as well. Besides, at 2-0 the game was already over; sure Rogers made a mistake, but the boy hit a great strike and had all the time in the world to do so.

[calcutta]

I thought it was a good Queens performance today, could easily have been 6/7.

Dumbarton looked a shambles. We dealt much better with the conditions than they did. Zanders kicking into the wind was much better, I don't know how many times I heard the sons players shouting to there keeper to keep it lower and he persisted in lofting it into the wind hardly getting over the half way line. Ie Fowlers great goal, wind assisted but what a strike.

this.

Dumbarton's goal kicks in the 2nd half were one of our best attacking weapons.

[Jan Vojáček]

I heard that as well. The irony is, that these are the same idiots who would give Ewings and Grindlay pelters as well. Besides, at 2-0 the game was already over; sure Rogers made a mistake, but the boy hit a great strike and had all the time in the world to do so.

Yup, seem to be in the minority that takes the 'keepers side!

If I was in goals and he'd been given enough time to take a touch whilst the midfield stood and watched before Fowler fired in such a sublime shot I'd have chased my midfielders off the park. Looked like we'd near enough given up before that point which annoyed me.

[Monkey Tennis]

Wasn't there today. Obviously delighted with the result, but the thread makes for very interesting reading as regards Dumbarton.

Their fans entered this game with little hope and the scoreline, unsurprisingly, has not helped their mood.

We went a bit mental early last season about a new manager wilfully altering something successful and seemingly doing us significant damage.

You seem to be entering the same territory just now, but with your hitherto successful manager.

What's the story, or at least some theories around it?

Is it about changes to key personnel?

Is it about an attempt to counter the unique set-up of this season's division?

Is it about Murray believing his own good press and getting a bit silly?

I'm genuinely interested in why people think he's changed things.

[Sloop John B]

That was one of Lyle's best performances for us since he came back, that ball for the second goal was brilliant and he looks a completely different player from the frustrated figure we saw for most of last year. Hopefully it's a sign of things to come this season.

[FifeSons]

Wasn't there today. Obviously delighted with the result, but the thread makes for very interesting reading as regards Dumbarton.

Their fans entered this game with little hope and the scoreline, unsurprisingly, has not helped their mood.

We went a bit mental early last season about a new manager wilfully altering something successful and seemingly doing us significant damage.

You seem to be entering the same territory just now, but with your hitherto successful manager.

What's the story, or at least some theories around it?

Is it about changes to key personnel?

Is it about an attempt to counter the unique set-up of this season's division?

Is it about Murray believing his own good press and getting a bit silly?

I'm genuinely interested in why people think he's changed things.

I think he's wanted to play a much more controlled, balanced style of play, to stop us leaking so many goals and to give us a better chance against the new teams in the division. I think playing against those three has weighed on his mind far too much, and completely clouded his judgement. Last season we played cup games against both Dundee Utd and Aberdeen; we narrowly lost both games, 2-3 and 1-0 respectively, and by all accounts were unlucky to do so. Now, are Hearts, Hibs and the **** any better this season than either of those sides were last season? Not even close. So, why on earth change a system that had brought us unbridled success over the last 18 months and had proven that it could run big clubs very close? Only Murray knows the answer to that.

I'd like to see him come out and take responsibility for today's result; say that he's tried something new, that it hasn't worked, ditch these ridiculous tactics and get back to the basics that it's so painfully obvious to see will get the best out of the team.

[Monkey Tennis]

I think he's wanted to play a much more controlled, balanced style of play, to stop us leaking so many goals and to give us a better chance against the new teams in the division. I think playing against those three has weighed on his mind far too much, and completely clouded his judgement. Last season we played cup games against both Dundee Utd and Aberdeen; we narrowly lost both games, 2-3 and 1-0 respectively, and by all accounts were unlucky to do so. Now, are Hearts, Hibs and the **** any better this season than either of those sides were last season? Not even close. So, why on earth change a system that had brought us unbridled success over the last 18 months and had proven that it could run big clubs very close? Only Murray knows the answer to that.

I'd like to see him come out and take responsibility for today's result, say that he's tried something new, that it hasn't worked, ditch these ridiculous tactics and get back to the basics that it's so painfully obvious to see will get the best out of the team.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

You're clearly putting it down then to this year's presence of three big clubs.

What specifically has he changed this season?

[Homer Sandoval]

Was at today's game with my Sons supporting pal and it's been a wee while since I'd seen Dumbarton play. Watched them twice last season. First was a 4-2 win against Cowdenbeath followed by a very impressive 5-1 rout v Alloa a week later.

What a contrast today. My pal was inconsolable and no wonder. No flair and worse, it looked as if the Dumbarton players had never met each other before today. Queens mind you were superb. They mastered difficult conditions and could and should have scored more. Russell was very effective and Fowler's goal was a brilliant piece of skill. A wee observation on Fowler's goal. The reaction from one or two Dumbarton fans who had a real go at the lad Rogers in the Sons goal was way ott. One lady a few rows back from me has obviously never been to a football match before. Her observation on the situation was just silly. The expectation amongst Dumbarton fans is now very high but a reality check is required. In summary, Queens were simply better and they completely dominated a poor Sons side on the day.

[FifeSons]

Thanks for the detailed answer. You're clearly putting it down then to this year's presence of three big clubs. What specifically has he changed this season?

The whole style of our play is entirely different. He has decided to adopt a possession based approach and play without wingers, instead adopting a midfield diamond formation. One of the problems with this is that both full backs are left totally exposed, and neither have any pace to speak of. This also leaves us ludicrously congested in the middle of the park, with no outlet to where our pacey wingers were last season. The tempo is much slower, he has us playing it around at the back and to the keeper constantly (the contributor to goal no. 1 today) which the players look incredibly uncomfortable doing. There is not a single positive about the new system; it has not tightened us up defensively (in fact, it has done the opposite), as he clearly had hoped, and has taken away any kind of attacking threat we once possessed.

[Monkey Tennis]

The whole style of our play is entirely different. He has decided to adopt a possession based approach and play without wingers, instead adopting a midfield diamond formation. One of the problems with this is that both full backs are left totally exposed, and neither have any pace to speak of. This also leaves us ludicrously congested in the middle of the park, with no outlet to where our pacey wingers were last season. The tempo is much slower, he has us playing it around at the back and to the keeper constantly (the contributor to goal no. 1 today) which the players look incredibly uncomfortable doing. There is not a single positive about the new system; it has not tightened us up defensively (in fact, it does done the opposite), as he clearly had hoped, and has taken away any kind of attacking threat we once possessed.

Cheers.

It does sound like he's being stupid.

An intricate passing game is brilliant if it can be done, but it's extremely difficult.

Where do you see this heading?

A stubborn perseverance, a gradual, but distinct shift, or a mea culpa overnight departure?

[FifeSons]

Where do you see this heading?

League One.

[Homer Thompson]

this.

Dumbarton's goal kicks in the 2nd half were one of our best attacking weapons.

It wasnt a goal kick, but one of his clearances went 20 yards out, 20 yards up and then out for a corner. Fantastic entertainment

The whole style of our play is entirely different. He has decided to adopt a possession based approach and play without wingers, instead adopting a midfield diamond formation. One of the problems with this is that both full backs are left totally exposed, and neither have any pace to speak of. This also leaves us ludicrously congested in the middle of the park, with no outlet to where our pacey wingers were last season. The tempo is much slower, he has us playing it around at the back and to the keeper constantly (the contributor to goal no. 1 today) which the players look incredibly uncomfortable doing. There is not a single positive about the new system; it has not tightened us up defensively (in fact, it does done the opposite), as he clearly had hoped, and has taken away any kind of attacking threat we once possessed.

McIntyre is also fond of a midfield diamond, at times. Its worked quite well for us, but then we've used it to play three central midfielders with one attacking midfielder off the front two. The fullbacks can get exposed unless the central midfielders can shift across the pitch to cover. Sounds like Murray has been playing wide players but centrally?

I didnt really think Dumbarton were all that bad today. However, having seen some of their other results, I can understand where the fans frustrations are coming from

[ThirdrockfromtheSon]

I didnt really think Dumbarton were all that bad today. However, having seen some of their other results, I can understand where the fans frustrations are coming from

Honing in on the above, it's a great sign that some of our fans a very bad losers; this means they want winners on the park.

It's easy to say you didn't think we were that bad today. Can I just ask you if you'd have made the same comment if we'd nicked it one nil?

The fans are frustrated because we've tasted relative success by our standards in the last year and a half. We have had a bad start with new formations and tactics and it goes against what we're used to seeing, albeit we have had some personnel changes from last year. We're just a bit out of our comfort zone, I'd suggest, and want to get back to what we were used to.

[Homer Thompson]

Honing in on the above, it's a great sign that some of our fans a very bad losers; this means they want winners on the park.

It's easy to say you didn't think we were that bad today. Can I just ask you if you'd have made the same comment if we'd nicked it one nil?

The fans are frustrated because we've tasted relative success by our standards in the last year and a half. We have had a bad start with new formations and tactics and it goes against what we're used to seeing, albeit we have had some personnel changes from last year. We're just a bit out of our comfort zone, I'd suggest, and want to get back to what we were used to.

Thats basically what, I thought, I was saying. As a one-off performance, I didnt think Dumbarton looked that bad, especially given the conditions. Put in context of the other results and the changes to formation etc, the fans criticisms and frustrations make sense.

[palmy_cammy]

I have to say I thought Dumbarton were terrible, they really didn't trouble us at all. They were unable to use the wind to their advantage in the first half, and there seemed to be a complete lack of understanding between the players with the most simple of moves breaking down. They've definitely deteriorated since last season when you were guaranteed a tough game.

We won at a canter without any really standing out. I'm becoming a big fan of Fowler, even before he scored goal of the season.

A win next week against Livi is vital ahead of a tough run of games. I still feel we're capable of improvement, but so far so good.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

I have to say I thought Dumbarton were terrible, they really didn't trouble us at all. They were unable to use the wind to their advantage in the first half, and there seemed to be a complete lack of understanding between the players with the most simple of moves breaking down. They've definitely deteriorated since last season when you were guaranteed a tough game.

We won at a canter without any really standing out. I'm becoming a big fan of Fowler, even before he scored goal of the season.

A win next week against Livi is vital ahead of a tough run of games. I still feel we're capable of improvement, but so far so good.

Have to agree with this, Dumbarton did not pose any great problems. We did what we had to do without being stretched, kept a clean sheet, picked up three points, scored some good goals, Fowler's especially, which were the icing on the cake. Tougher games lie ahead starting next Saturday, a win against Livi will set us up for the Cup match away to them the following midweek and the trip to the rangers the following Saturday.