The Arbroath Thread

[Smokerson]

We have 20 signed players with 2 on loan. I would suggest that would be 1 possibly 2 short of a normal part time squad. You cant go and sign 24/25 players at part time level,  1. you cant keep 12/13 boys of a decent standard happy every week when they are not playing and 2. I would imagine it would not be the best use of our budget.

The bottom line is we have been very unlucky with injuries but the issue McIntyre has is there are 4 or 5 players in the squad who are just not championship standard, he will have to move them on in January and we are all very hopeful he brings in some decent replacements. Whilst we were shite last season, it was bringing in solid signings in Dow, Hetherington, the irish lad at full back that helped us stay up.

[1320Lichtie]

8 minutes ago, clashcityrocker said:

We are in a yo-yo league, if we can start collecting points we will get off the bottom spot - it won't be easy, we have injuries, shortage of options and low confidence - but that is the manager's job to resolve these matters, that is why is was brought in - he would have said at the interview that he has the experience to keep us in the Championship - that is why he was appointed.

We will be in a dog fight with a number of teams - we are not doomed - the players need to do their part and the management need to set up their formations correctly.

The transfer window in January is never good, but a good manager should be able to identify what is required and address these issues ( he will have the support of the board).

Doomed - not yet.

Well I feel like we are DOOOOOOMED!

 

Would be ecstatic to be proven wrong

 

On squad numbers I feel like both points are correct, definitely short a few bodies but it’s the make up of the bodies that are actually here that is the issue 

 

I don’t even know what kind of team we will put out when ToB is suspended - it hurts my head thinking about it 

 

 

[Leicesterlichtie]

3 hours ago, lichtie23 said:

I wonder if Ali Adams can play CB? 

Play him in goal and Gaston CB.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

They were 10 points clear of Hamilton and 4 clear of Arbroath with a game in hand. There was nothing to suggest they were in any danger of ending up 10th if McIntyre stayed.

Several of the managers you list also weren't sacked by clubs they won cups with and/or weren't bottom of the league when they left their jobs. Of those, calling Tommy Wright a shit manager is a particularly wild take as well despite his failure at Kilmarnock. Going along with the argument of discounting cups to focus on the league, in seven seasons with St Johnstone he finished in the top six five times, with consistent European qualification.

Bobby Williamson as well. Didn't do well at Hibs but had a fantastic time at Killie long after the cup win.

[lichtie23]

1 hour ago, DD11 said:

Does anyone know if tonight’s match is being streamed? Club not replying to my email and no advertising of any stream makes me think not.

Aye they’ve announced it just now. £13 

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, Smokerson said:

We have 20 signed players with 2 on loan. I would suggest that would be 1 possibly 2 short of a normal part time squad. You cant go and sign 24/25 players at part time level,  1. you cant keep 12/13 boys of a decent standard happy every week when they are not playing and 2. I would imagine it would not be the best use of our budget.

The bottom line is we have been very unlucky with injuries but the issue McIntyre has is there are 4 or 5 players in the squad who are just not championship standard, he will have to move them on in January and we are all very hopeful he brings in some decent replacements. Whilst we were shite last season, it was bringing in solid signings in Dow, Hetherington, the irish lad at full back that helped us stay up.

No one is suggesting we have 24/25 players. We’ve had no more than 19 available players this season as Hamilton was out until very recently. Now 19 is maybe fine at the start of the season when everyone (well mostly) is fit and there are no suspensions. It always happens at this time of year - players get injured and suspended. Yes, perhaps we’ve had a few more injuries than expected but that has to be planned for. Is there a part time team in the top 4 league with a squad as small as ours? I’d be very very surprised.

To me 21/22 is the perfect size of squad. You can say that you can’t have X amount missing out every week but that’s never really the case due to aforementioned injuries and suspensions.

You also need a squad of that size to encourage competition and to keep players on their toes. I feel we have too many players phoning it in every week due to lack of pressure from within the squad.

[Leicesterlichtie]

I think in recent years we have been quite fortunate with injuries and suspensions. Past couple of years, we've definitely been having our fair share of long term injuries. 

[timlichtie]

15 minutes ago, Leicesterlichtie said:

I think in recent years we have been quite fortunate with injuries and suspensions. Past couple of years, we've definitely been having our fair share of long term injuries. 

2 seasons ago when we finished second we had incredible luck with injuries and some excellent loans. We also ground our lots of narrow wins. Unlikely to be repeated.

As a Lichtie veteran I’m looking at an 18 month project for Jim McIntyre to get us properly competitive. If he keeps us up, great, but I won’t judge him harshly if he doesn’t. I’d just like some progress back towards a balanced squad with a decent game plan.

[Rael Rover]

1 hour ago, lichtie23 said:

Aye they’ve announced it just now. £13 

Do you have a link?

[Broath Boy]

9 minutes ago, Rael Rover said:

Do you have a link?

On AFC facebook page.

[Rael Rover]

41 minutes ago, Broath Boy said:

On AFC facebook page.

Found it eventually. Thanks Broaith Boy

[SmokeyJoe]

7 hours ago, lichtie23 said:

I wonder if Ali Adams can play CB? 

He has better distribution than some the boys that’s played cb so far this season  

[SmokeyJoe]

Squad size I’d say is fine it’s the balance that’s fucked far too many CMs and 4 defenders. Dick wanted to rely on midfielders covering the injuries and suspensions which is fine if one or two at a time but no when we have loads in both defence and central midfield. Ideally should of went into season with 4 fit defenders and a short term loan until hammy was back 

[lichtie23]

At the risk of being scalded for saying this…..Hammy hasn’t been great since returning from injury. 

[timlichtie]

3 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

At the risk of being scalded for saying this…..Hammy hasn’t been great since returning from injury. 

Don’t think many would disagree. He should have had cover to recover with substitute appearances and never thrown on for 90 minutes straight off. Most of us were crying out for another LB to be signed at the start of the season. The decision to rely on Hammy to come back and perform at Championship level was flawed to put it mildly.

[Smokerson]

 

I think McIntyre needs to realise that Little is now at the end of his career, his legs are slowing down and is now getting injured more. Hammy needs to be cut a bit slack, he has been out for a long time. O'Brien has been nowhere near his 2020/2021 form and also picking up injuries. 

[RedLichtie86]

57 minutes ago, SmokeyJoe said:

Squad size I’d say is fine it’s the balance that’s fucked far too many CMs and 4 defenders. Dick wanted to rely on midfielders covering the injuries and suspensions which is fine if one or two at a time but no when we have loads in both defence and central midfield. Ideally should of went into season with 4 fit defenders and a short term loan until hammy was back 

Eggs in one basket approach.

Hammy, Little and ToB have been poor for 18 months now. No competition in those places has led to complacency.

And hoping for midfielders to magically step in to defence is all well and good for a very short time (during a game or a one off match) but long term its just pathetic at this level of football.

And we have constantly seen us struggle to field a side that looks capable of defending due to us pulling midfielders back into positons they clearly look uncomfortable playing in. And even leaving the midfield weakened do to the changes.

Having natural defenders in the club to challenge for these positions is the only way forward. If that means a bigger squad so be it. If someone is unhappy at lack of game time there are options to deal with that. Loan/transfer them out. But most players are professional enough to be able cope with not playing every week.

 

[ExiledLichtie]

52 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

At the risk of being scalded for saying this…..Hammy hasn’t been great since returning from injury. 

Of course he hasn't!  He was brought back at the first possible opportunity, has been playing at both FB and centre back, and didn't have a pre-season.  In an ideal world, he would have had weeks of sub appearances and bounce games before starting, especially after such a major injury.  When a player comes back from a lay off like that, they'll always be behind players who had proper pre-seasons.  

Regarding the defence generally, Steele is young and raw and in his first championship season, and I think we need to remember and take that into account, Little is, well my views on Little were the subject of some criticism last season, and in my opinion, the reason ToB is making more rash challenges, picking up more bookings etc is that he's having to compensate for Little constantly being caught out of position.  With all the injuries and suspensions too, our defence seems to be constantly shifting around.  We just haven't had a settled team.  That isn't good for youngsters like Steele or players learning a new position like Stewart.  

I've said it for the last 2 years, and I'll keep saying it.  Defensive reinforcements should be an absolute priority, particularly a new centre back.

[Hayshead2]

10 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Of course he hasn't!  He was brought back at the first possible opportunity, has been playing at both FB and centre back, and didn't have a pre-season.  In an ideal world, he would have had weeks of sub appearances and bounce games before starting, especially after such a major injury.  When a player comes back from a lay off like that, they'll always be behind players who had proper pre-seasons.  

Regarding the defence generally, Steele is young and raw and in his first championship season, and I think we need to remember and take that into account, Little is, well my views on Little were the subject of some criticism last season, and in my opinion, the reason ToB is making more rash challenges, picking up more bookings etc is that he's having to compensate for Little constantly being caught out of position.  With all the injuries and suspensions too, our defence seems to be constantly shifting around.  We just haven't had a settled team.  That isn't good for youngsters like Steele or players learning a new position like Stewart.  

I've said it for the last 2 years, and I'll keep saying it.  Defensive reinforcements should be an absolute priority, particularly a new centre back.

This. And the fact that we don't have any decent holding/defensive centre midfield players. It all adds up to us loosing cheep goals week after week.

[RedLichtie86]

1 hour ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Of course he hasn't!  He was brought back at the first possible opportunity, has been playing at both FB and centre back, and didn't have a pre-season.  In an ideal world, he would have had weeks of sub appearances and bounce games before starting, especially after such a major injury.  When a player comes back from a lay off like that, they'll always be behind players who had proper pre-seasons.  

Regarding the defence generally, Steele is young and raw and in his first championship season, and I think we need to remember and take that into account, Little is, well my views on Little were the subject of some criticism last season, and in my opinion, the reason ToB is making more rash challenges, picking up more bookings etc is that he's having to compensate for Little constantly being caught out of position.  With all the injuries and suspensions too, our defence seems to be constantly shifting around.  We just haven't had a settled team.  That isn't good for youngsters like Steele or players learning a new position like Stewart.  

I've said it for the last 2 years, and I'll keep saying it.  Defensive reinforcements should be an absolute priority, particularly a new centre back.

Think you will find ToB has been making some major mistakes the past 18 months. Constantly out of position by going on daft charges to the halfway line or out wide to challenge for a ball. Poor Ricky, Gold, Hammy etc have been left exposed and then went on to make their own mistakes.

Previos management just buried their heads in the sand as they were far too loyal to these players hence the lack of defensive signings.