DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I genuinely don't understand why this Ashcroft poll is getting so much coverage. The YouGov poll which had a larger sample size and was also done after the voting (and called the result almost spot on) didn't show over 65s being the deciding factor. It showed every age group voting No except the 25-39 group: http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/e1yphtuis8/Final_Prediction_140918_Final_Website.pdfThanks for the link.Keep repeating it. It might nail the lie over pensioners deciding this election. The only ones who were won significantly (55-45) were the 25-39 age bracket - the FB generation. How long lasting that support will be I'm not sure. It could be established or it could just be another ice bucket challenge they sheeped on to. I did speak to younger relatives who were switched by FB campaigns but who really couldn't give a coherent argument because they had been persuaded by some idiotic claim. My favourites: * "Norway - they've had it (independence) since 1905, they get half taxes to pay for Christmas, let's be like them" * "If we're independent we'll never be involved in a war again" * "We should vote Yes because that guy bet £600000 on a No vote" - this came from a £100k+ earning relative who was bamming about winning 5 figure sporting bets only months before. Just to balance things up - one who voted No because "They're going to stop us buying drink until we're 21 like they do in the States" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 That applies whether we are independent or not so why was it used for pro-union propaganda? Why did No canvassers go around Scotland telling pensioners that they wouls lose their pensions if we went independent even though they knew it was a lie? The issue was private pensions - I know my mum had major concerns over hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Private pensions are running with a massive black hole anyway. The only difference independence would have made would be that pension companies would have had to start plugging that hole. And the No Better Together campaign were scaremongering about all pensions. I hardly think they were knocking on little old ladies doors and saying "Oh, you don't have a private pension? You'll be fine then." Just because your mum fell for the scaremongering that doesn't mean it was in any way valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowdenConvert Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Bitch, please. You think this wasn't lies and scaremongering? Salmond had no credible economic case. How was he going to pay these pensions? Until that question gets answered i din't see it as scaremongering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Private pensions are running with a massive black hole anyway. The only difference independence would have made would be that pension companies would have had to start plugging that hole. And the No Better Together campaign were scaremongering about all pensions. I hardly think they were knocking on little old ladies doors and saying "Oh, you don't have a private pension? You'll be fine then." Just because your mum fell for the scaremongering that doesn't mean it was in any way valid. She's not some dumb old biddy - trust me. Shebwas concerned about the IORP Directive that would require all schemes located in Scotland accepting contributions from an employer located in the rest of the UK (or vice versa) to apply for authorisation as a cross-border scheme. Successful authorisations would come with stringent funding requirements - and that may have been an issue for some funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 She's not some dumb old biddy - trust me. Shebwas concerned about the IORP Directive that would require all schemes located in Scotland accepting contributions from an employer located in the rest of the UK (or vice versa) to apply for authorisation as a cross-border scheme. Successful authorisations would come with stringent funding requirements - and that may have been an issue for some funds. It would have been an issue for funds running with a massive black hole that would need to be plugged. I doubt the future will be bright for these funds anyway as they are the very definition of unsustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 DeeTillEhDeh's still very active on these threads for someone who drew a cock and balls over his ballot paper. And I know he's just love it to be the case that pensioners didn't vote No, but sadly, they did, and knackered it for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 DeeTillEhDeh's still very active on these threads for someone who drew a cock and balls over his ballot paper. And I know he's just love it to be the case that pensioners didn't vote No, but sadly, they did, and knackered it for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Salmond had no credible economic case. How was he going to pay these pensions? Until that question gets answered i din't see it as scaremongering. He did. He intended importing workers from abroad because Scotlands population is ageing and the young uns are not breeding. This might have had the effect of increasing the size of the private sector in Scotland (which is badly needed) but it would probably just have been a case of driving wages down as the labour market becomes flooded, much like it is doing in the UK just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 According to YouGov... Yes lost every age group apart from 25-39... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 According to YouGov... Yes lost every age group apart from 25-39... According to Ashcroft, Yes won every group apart from 18-24 and 55+. Funny seeing you beng selective about the polls now, Lex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 According to Ashcroft, Yes won every group apart from 18-24 and 55+. Funny seeing you beng selective about the polls now, Lex. Wonder who's right? Guess we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 According to Ashcroft, Yes won every group apart from 18-24 and 55+. Funny seeing you beng selective about the polls now, Lex. wouldnt you gov have used a bigger sample than ashcroft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I genuinely don't understand why this Ashcroft poll is getting so much coverage. The YouGov poll which had a larger sample size and was also done after the voting (and called the result almost spot on) didn't show over 65s being the deciding factor. It showed every age group voting No except the 25-39 group: http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/e1yphtuis8/Final_Prediction_140918_Final_Website.pdf Yes quite. This is just this board in a microcosm. Yes voters have seized on the Ashcroft poll because they quite liked the results. This being the very same Lord Ashcroft who was dismissed utterly as a pollster pre referendum because they didn t like his findings. They arent actually interested in finding out just how many demographics completely sworded Yes. That doesn't help the excuse making machine that would rather blame pensioners . You d think after being so abysmally wrong during the referendum campaign they d have learned their lesson. But no. I look forward to the RIC and private polling that showed Yes won every age group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookies Love Me Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Do some of you people never stop and think that these "Auld Selfish B*ast*rds", as some have kindly put it, may have decided to vote NO for other reasons? You're talking about a generation who fought for freedom/economic and social justice. Who took on employers to fight for a better future for their "children's children". They look around them and see the state the county's in, how their "legacy" has crumbled, and how elderly people are generally treated and abused. You just have to read some comments on here and other social media outlets to see how high a regard they are held. I personally think it's despicable they way they are being "blamed" for a Democratic" decision. But, hey ho, keep it up lads. Feel the surge of pride that you get in being morally superior to the "Auld B*astards". Not forgetting, it always makes you feel better if you can vent your spleen on some of the most vulnerable in society. I suppose if it were proven that the immigrant population were at fault the closet racists would be out in force. Boycott Age Concern and Saga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Do some of you people never stop and think that these "Auld Selfish B*ast*rds", as some have kindly put it, may have decided to vote NO for other reasons? You're talking about a generation who fought for freedom/economic and social justice. Who took on employers to fight for a better future for their "children's children". They look around them and see the state the county's in, how their "legacy" has crumbled, and how elderly people are generally treated and abused. You just have to read some comments on here and other social media outlets to see how high a regard they are held. I personally think it's despicable they way they are being "blamed" for a Democratic" decision. But, hey ho, keep it up lads. Feel the surge of pride that you get in being morally superior to the "Auld B*astards". Not forgetting, it always makes you feel better if you can vent your spleen on some of the most vulnerable in society. I suppose if it were proven that the immigrant population were at fault the closet racists would be out in force. Boycott Age Concern and Saga! great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The racists have already been out in force. We ve had posters blaming English people living here and one even complained that they were allowed to vote. That's the tolerant Yes community in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The "generation who fought for freedom" line sometimes trotted out by some flag waving BritNats doesn't wash with me. I'm going to say that a minority of the 65+ were actually old enough to have any role in the Second World War. Not that it's even relevant to the issue at hand, they can still be criticised for their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The "generation who fought for freedom" line sometimes trotted out by some flag waving BritNats doesn't wash with me. I'm going to say that a minority of the 65+ were actually old enough to have any role in the Second World War. Not that it's even relevant to the issue at hand, they can still be criticised for their decision. And praised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 And respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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