HibeeJibee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The only real way imo to entice exiled fans to a lesser quality of product is by price reduction/incentives. Scottish football is treading water on the backs of blind loyal fans. Hats off to Aberdeen and Dundee united though who have managed to maintain or increase their average attendance in the past couple years. Problem is that clubs which have trialled reduced price schemes usually struggle to make up the difference... e.g. if you cut prices by 1/4 (say from £24 to £18) are you going to see attendances rise by 1/3 (say from 3,000 to 4,000)? I suspect you'd see only a small rise. For me the priority should be ensuring ticket prices don't rise very fast from current levels. Substantial price cuts aren't realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Celtic and Sevco crowds massively inflate the 'per capita' figure that people like to quote. For the rest of the teams it wouldn't look so good. It's a bit of a red herring that gives a false picture of how crowds are doing across Scotland. The merger chat is a load of shite and would never work. The argument of their being more to do these days is a shite one as well. You've been able to play a games console at home for over 20 years. You've been able to watch films at home for longer. You've been able to sit and watch Sky all day since about 1992. Cinemas have been around for over 100 years. Even when the first massive surge in internet use hit, crowds were still significantly higher than today. More people are choosing not to go to games in Scotland because the match day experience is shite and you're expected to pay ridiculous sums for it. The atmosphere at most grounds is boring. At many grounds you get chucked out for standing for f**k sake. It's crap sitting in a shitey plastic seat hearing only wrappers rustling or the sound of the ball being kicked. I don't go to home games any longer because it's so fucking boring. Clubs have for too long relied on fan loyalty whilst doing nothing to deserve it. Indeed in far too many cases they almost demand loyalty whilst pushing away fans by not catering to what the fans actually want; indeed often doing the opposite. I can't see them sorting the match day experience any time soon. Clubs perceive terracing as somehow dangerous despite thousands standing on them each week without incident, let alone all the death they apparently cause. Stewards and police are for the most part dicks who view those who sing at games as troublemakers itching to kick off and start massive rucks. The ludicrous laws concerning fans at games means you run the risk of getting a criminal record if things get out of hand, which can happen due to something as trivial as a steward being a dick about standing. I've seen it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The 'too-many-clubs' theory is interesting. We do have many more clubs per head than other countries and I think it would be interesting to study why this is. Is it as simple as we were very enthusiastic about our football from day 1? A little too overenthusiastic? Anyway the point I am going to make is that we have 42 clubs each with their own unique history and any change in the way we get people through the gates will have to be sensitive to that. Unfortunately that means the German model won't work if we simply attempt to copy it over here. Likewise it wouldn't work in England, or rather it wouldn't be allowed to work. The German model requires fan ownership and this will never happen in England. There are too many people making too much money to relinquish their power and hand over to the fans. In the Scottish league however there are very few people, if any, making serious profit from football club ownership so we've got that going for us. If we were to get clubs into fan ownership we could then use football as a community asset. People would feel more involved in the club. The club could find alternative funding streams such as community coaching, facility hire, or perhaps government subsidy if they were seen to be valuable enough to the community. Then and only then would we see a serious drop in ticket prices. Until then I reckon we've got to grin and bear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Celtic and Sevco crowds massively inflate the 'per capita' figure that people like to quote. For the rest of the teams it wouldn't look so good. It's a bit of a red herring that gives a false picture of how crowds are doing across Scotland. Tripe... Even with OF excluded (but not the top 2 from any other country!!) we still have highest crowds per game than anywhere bar Cyprus, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland; the highest crowds per matchday than anywhere other than Belgium, Cyprus, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal and Switzerland; and the highest gross crowds per season anywhere other than Belgium, Cyprus, Iceland, Netherlands and Norway. However, if you were to drop the top 2 from those leagues in the same manner, I'm sure we would be above everyone bar Cyprus and maybe Iceland. Total myth. I'm still not sure why people (as they often do) think OF somehow "don't count", anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The 'too-many-clubs' theory is interesting. We do have many more clubs per head than other countries and I think it would be interesting to study why this is. Is it as simple as we were very enthusiastic about our football from day 1? A little too overenthusiastic? It depends how you define it of course. We have a lot of clubs which operate comparatively few teams each. Comparing us to other European countries of similar population using FIFA's most recent Big Count (2006) shows that we're a nation of football watchers, not players. Denmark Salaried Players........... 852 18+ Amateurs (at XIs).. 111,757 Clubs.................... 1,615 > Teams (All Ages)...... 17,365 Finland Salaried Players........... 360 18+ Amateurs (at XIs)... 26,555 Clubs...................... 990 > Teams (All Ages)....... 4,225 Slovakia Salaried Players........... 489 18+ Amateurs (at XIs).. 252,435 Clubs.................... 2,417 > Teams (All Ages)....... 7,353 Norway Salaried Players......... 1,000 18+ Amateurs (at XIs)... 78,207 Clubs.................... 1,818 > Teams (All Ages)...... 19,841 SCOTLAND Salaried Players......... 4,132 18+ Amateurs (at XIs)... 39,234 Clubs.................... 6,600 > Teams (All Ages)....... 8,200 Georgia Salaried Players......... 1,279 18+ Amateurs (at XIs)... 23,990 Clubs...................... 202 > Teams (All Ages)......... 522 Eire Salaried Players........... 476 18+ Amateurs........... 174,498 Clubs.................... 5,629 > Teams (All Ages)...... 15,025 Croatia Salaried Players........... 321 18+ Amateurs (at XIs)... 42,219 Clubs.................... 1,463 > Teams (All Ages)....... 3,353 Bosnia & Herzegovina Salaried Players........... 430 18+ Amateurs (at XIs)... 40,370 Clubs...................... 763 > Teams (All Ages)....... 1,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKTID Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Problem is that clubs which have trialled reduced price schemes usually struggle to make up the difference... e.g. if you cut prices by 1/4 (say from £24 to £18) are you going to see attendances rise by 1/3 (say from 3,000 to 4,000)? I suspect you'd see only a small rise. For me the priority should be ensuring ticket prices don't rise very fast from current levels. Substantial price cuts aren't realistic. I agree you would only see a small rise if u reduced tickets by a small margin. If you reduce them by 10-12 quid to be on par with German prices atm then i believe you would see substantial increases. Would be good if the government or Sfa proposed a cheaper ticket initiative. Trial it for a few weeks and if clubs make a substantial loss then the SFa or government subsidizes before moving prices back to normal. If it works however then happy days. With the SFA fleecing the tartan army at the moment they shouldn't be short on a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebud Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 How many of these cheap season tickets for bayern and Barcelona are available though? Will probably find there will be a handful of these. I paid 340 for my season ticket this year as was working most saturdays last year, don't buy any food as it is aids on a stick and way over priced. Haven't bought a programme in almost a decade. Noticed that hearts dearest match day ticket is £30 are they taking the piss? As a point of note, I'm lucky enough to be being treated to "El Classico" in Barcelona in March, tickets are around £600 each and that's for Cat 2 tickets. My ticket for that game alone costs more than my adult season tickets plus the kids 2 season tickets put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I agree you would only see a small rise if u reduced tickets by a small margin. If you reduce them by 10-12 quid to be on par with German prices atm then i believe you would see substantial increases. So you're halving prices. What increase in crowds would you forecast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I agree you would only see a small rise if u reduced tickets by a small margin. If you reduce them by 10-12 quid to be on par with German prices atm then i believe you would see substantial increases. Would be good if the government or Sfa proposed a cheaper ticket initiative. Trial it for a few weeks and if clubs make a substantial loss then the SFa or government subsidizes before moving prices back to normal. If it works however then happy days. With the SFA fleecing the tartan army at the moment they shouldn't be short on a few quid. As long as the matchday experience remains as it is then price reductions will make little difference, something that so many in football still can't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 We are not very good at the whole 'experience' thing. I have watched football in Germany and the USA and both offered phenomenal match day value, entertainment and services. Just don't think it is something that we actually do very well or maybe in some cases actually want. It is the done thing in the Allianz when 1860 play that people go a couple of hours beforehand to the beer hall in the ground and they socialise with other fans. In the US they tailgate outside the ground, there are food stalls, beer stalls and games for kids to play but to be honest could you ever imagine that happening here? There are too many who are happy having their pints in the pub and then ambling to the ground to buy into all of that 'razzmatazz'. Any attempt at actually doing something in the ground is usually met with a snide look and scepticism, it is something we are good at doing! The one thing I would definitely change is the standard of food and drink. Alcohol is always a touchy subject that has been debated to death but it should definitely be brought into Scottish grounds. Also the food is dire. Bar the few grounds that actually make the effort (East End Park, Rugby Park etc) it is woeful. I would spend an extra £5-£10 every home game if I could get a beer and some decent food at Tannadice. Not sure why they wouldn't do something similar to what I have seen abroad and franchise out the food outlets to local places. You would maybe have (in Dundee) Clarkes, Nicolls or whoever offering good, local food that people would actually buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFAANW Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 tbf i would happily watch shittier football for a cheaper price and potentially better atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 tbf i would happily watch shittier football for a cheaper price and potentially better atmosphere. If the football was shit I doubt the atmosphere would be up to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFAANW Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If the football was shit I doubt the atmosphere would be up to much. Well it can't get much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Well it can't get much worse. It can, ever been to a Juniors match? Shitter product leads to less fans. Less money in the game leads to shitter product. Lower prices leads to less money. The amount of fans you'd gain from dropping the prices wouldn't make up the shortfall, we offer two kids and one adult for £15 and still struggle to add to our support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 As a point of note, I'm lucky enough to be being treated to "El Classico" in Barcelona in March, tickets are around £600 each and that's for Cat 2 tickets. My ticket for that game alone costs more than my adult season tickets plus the kids 2 season tickets put together. Why are you taking a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 we offer two kids and one adult for £15 and still struggle to add to our support.It's noticeable since Ross Cunningham went full time this deal is now actually being promoted. It could be that this could be the problem. Or maybe these fans are just not there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. X Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Noticed that hearts dearest match day ticket is £30 are they taking the piss? These tickets are for the most expensive seats against Hibs and Rangers only. The Hibs tickets sold out no problem and the Rangers tickets have sold out more than a month in advance of the game, so you could argue that the price is fine if folk are prepared to pay it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednyella Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 In my eyes it is not the pricing that is the major issue. It is the product. We pay for entertainment and a good day out. Scottish football has decreased in value due to the lack of quality in the game. I'm fine paying 20-25 quid for a ticket of the product is good but the game is not what it once was. The bottom line is that the English, Spanish and Germans with a little Italian and French sprinkled in have taken over the game in the modern era. All the money flows to the top 12 teams in these countries. If you are in Scotland, Portugal, Netherlands, Greece, Sweden etc. then you have seen the level of football diminish in the last decade. The money is drying up and no smaller nation can keep up. The last time a 2ndry nation won the top club competition was Porto in 04 I think. So it's not just the pricing of tickets. It's the evolution of the game and lack of quality in our leagues when the larger countries take the sponsorship, TV rights and collect the competition fees. Reform is needed i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I don't think quality comes that high on the list for many fans. Look at the lower leagues in England where the quality isn"t great but they still pull in great crowds. Then look at those fans who have the choice of standing and can have a beer. They clearly have a better matchday experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What is this product or matchday experience everyone is expecting? I turn up at tannadice around 3.02 to watch a game of football, downstairs for soccer saturday at half time then second half and home. Football for me is about watching and supporting your team. Silky football is all very well but its an add on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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