pandarilla Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Colkitto said today they would. Are you saying he's talking a load of bollocks? I think they'd be foolish to push hard for a referendum so soon. I think Yes voters who believe there can be a quick turnaround here are kidding themselves on - and have to look to the long game. I think you are the one who all-too-often spouts bollocks, just for laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think they'd be foolish to push hard for a referendum so soon. I think Yes voters who believe there can be a quick turnaround here are kidding themselves on - and have to look to the long game. I think you are the one who all-too-often spouts bollocks, just for laughs. Yes. Unfortunately for the SNP, they have just had a massive influx of new members probably all with the agenda of having another referendum ASAP although its possible they joined because they are all pragmatic and gradualist... Those people may end up feeling very let down. Is it a possibility that we could see the nationalists breaking into factions, particularly when the leadership will be at odds with so many of the "grassroots"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'll always listen to fellow yessers reasons if they believe a referendum in 2016 parly is too soon over britnat trolls who are shitting it in case we go head with it. My view is we should have another referendum in the 2016 parly because it's our best chance of having another go. If we get to 2020 the SNP will have been in government 13 years. The chances of getting another majority in parly could diminish as no government will remain that popular over that amount of time. Remember we need a majority in parly in a system designed for that not to happen. The SNP, like they were in 2007, could still form a government but not have an overall majority in the parliament. So in my view, our best chance is 2016 as we could be talking 15 to 20 years before we can try again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'll always listen to fellow yessers reasons if they believe a referendum in 2016 parly is too soon over britnat trolls who are shitting it in case we go head with it. My view is we should have another referendum in the 2016 parly because it's our best chance of having another go. If we get to 2020 the SNP will have been in government 13 years. The chances of getting another majority in parly could diminish as no government will remain that popular over that amount of time. Remember we need a majority in parly in a system designed for that not to happen. The SNP, like they were in 2007, could still form a government but not have an overall majority in the parliament. So in my view, our best chance is 2016 as we could be talking 15 to 20 years before we can try again There's absolutely no chance you'd get it. Particularly when it won't appear in your manifesto. What will you then do? As you say yourself, "its our best chance of having another go".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 There's absolutely no chance you'd get it. Particularly when it won't appear in your manifesto. What will you then do? As you say yourself, "its our best chance of having another go".. First of all explain how there is no chance we'd get it? I don't understand that comment at all. As for not appearing in the manifesto....we'll see eh? Nicola Sturgeon wants independence as much as I do. If she said it won't be included in the manifesto then I would need to respect her judgement as a highly skilled intelligent nationalist leader of her party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 First of all explain how there is no chance we'd get it? I don't understand that comment at all. As for not appearing in the manifesto....we'll see eh? Nicola Sturgeon wants independence as much as I do. If she said it won't be included in the manifesto then I would need to respect her judgement as a highly skilled intelligent nationalist leader of her party. You won't get a legally binding referendum again from the UK, simple as that. Yes Won't you be shattered at losing "our best chance of having another go?" Why would a "highly skilled, intelligent nationalist leader" disagree with your assertion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 ^^ This People vote with their heads and this is what Callybawbag and co don't get. All those thousands of people who are going to split apart or realise that the Indy thing is a "really cool idea" with absolutely no solid economic base and leave. I would not be surprised if some of the Indy ranters on here are the biggest opponents in years to come Guy with a flag in his picture talking about people voting with their heads. Topper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You won't get a legally binding referendum again from the UK, simple as that. Yes Won't you be shattered at losing "our best chance of having another go?" Why would a "highly skilled, intelligent nationalist leader" disagree with your assertion? So what you are saying is that there is no peaceful democratic process 1.6 million Scots can follow for the right of self determination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkston5 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Guy with a flag in his picture talking about people voting with their heads. Topper. It's more informative so that posters like you understand the situation. Spanner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 So what you are saying is that there is no peaceful democratic process 1.6 million Scots can follow for the right of self determination? Yep. We just self determined unfortunately for you. The British state considers the matter dealt with. They gave us a legally binding referendum which gave a clear answer and an enormous turnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkston5 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yep. We just self determined unfortunately for you. The British state considers the matter dealt with. They gave us a legally binding referendum which gave a clear answer and an enormous turnout. They don't seem to understand that a 10 point majority is a f**king spanking. "Aye but that's pyoor conspuracee and negative media n that" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yep. We just self determined unfortunately for you. The British state considers the matter dealt with. They gave us a legally binding referendum which gave a clear answer and an enormous turnout. You'se right wing brit-nats are cuckoo bonkers. No wonder there is so much conflict in the world when we have people who think like you in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order. Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties. For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkston5 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order. Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties. For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.” They have through a referendum which included an agreement signed by independence representatives. If your head hurts, maybe you should lie down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It's more informative so that posters like you understand the situation. Spanner What situation is it you refer to? That the bit of land outlined in the picture is the UK or that you're a flag waving nationalist? I fully understood both already, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 They have through a referendum which included an agreement signed by independence representatives. If your head hurts, maybe you should lie down I'm talking about the next one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tio Pepe Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order. Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties. For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.” Can I have a referendum in my own house to decide if we wish to be an independent state? Can we all do that and create thousands of new states? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think they'd be foolish to push hard for a referendum so soon. Well, yes. And yet, we have posters suggesting that's exactly what's going to happen How amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order. Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties. For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.” Self-determination has always been a right that has to be considered along with territorial integrity. There isn't, nor has there ever been, a fundamental right to self-determination under international law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Can I have a referendum in my own house to decide if we wish to be an independent state? Can we all do that and create thousands of new states? Self determination and all that. And if we don't get given a legal route out we can then throw ourselves to the floor, thrash around a bit in a childlike tantrum and declare UDI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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