Jump to content

Feminists

Mr Bairn

By Mr Bairn
in The General Nonsense Forum

Recommended Posts

The OP

The OP

Posted
Posted

Can you expand on why it's a stupid question, please. Regardless of whether he said feminists or women, it's one of the core questions asked of modern feminsm.

First of all because women aren't a homogenous group and there are approximately 3 and a half billion females in the world, about 4 of whom use this forum.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 547
  • Created
  • Last Reply
banana

banana

Posted
Posted

First of all because women aren't a homogenous group and there are approximately 3 and a half billion females in the world, about 4 of whom use this forum.

As feminism treats women as a homogenous group under the 'patriarchy' theory and at it's core performs activism almost exclusively on behalf of women, it's a very fair question to ask. Regardless of the number of women on this forum, you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist or subscribe to feminsim, and above all else this thread is about feminism/feminists.

If you're a feminist or have insight into the subject, feel free to answer throbber's question, which I'll rephrase slightly to meet your objection: "What rights do womenfeminists feel theywomen are being denied of because of their sex?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
banana

banana

Posted
Posted

This thread is kind of depressing because while obviously the old school 'women don't know the offside rule' and the like stuff has been present on P&B since the dawn of time, this thread is the first time I think I've seen the infinitely more pernicious fedora-wearing, reddit-using 'men's rights' form of misogynist bullshit on the forum.

:lol:

Can you clarify your points in detail, please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tamdunk

Tamdunk

Posted
Posted

As feminism treats women as a homogenous group under the 'patriarchy' theory and at it's core performs activism almost exclusively on behalf of women, it's a very fair question to ask. Regardless of the number of women on this forum, you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist or subscribe to feminsim, and above all else this thread is about feminism/feminists.

If you're a feminist or have insight into the subject, feel free to answer throbber's question, which I'll rephrase slightly to meet your objection: "What rights do womenfeminists feel theywomen are being denied of because of their sex?"

I just did a google search and this is the first site that came up. Some examples in there.

http://www.borgenmagazine.com/10-examples-gender-inequality-world/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The OP

The OP

Posted
Posted

How many of those apply to women in this country? The frontline combat one and arguably the wage one?

Institutional and covert prejudice against women is illegal in this country mainly thanks to the work of feminists, after thousands of years of disenfranchisement, disinheritance (unless there is no other option), unemployment and being treated like chattel (as a father's property, until being given away to a husband). The ideas that our historical unequal laws were based upon continue - that women's opinions are less important, that they are only suited to certain roles or that they love a bit of sexual harassment really. Women are still greatly underrepresented in positions of influence, although I'd argue that that is partly due to the fact that they take more responsibility for child rearing, and this is often through choice.

I can't bring myself to give a great f**k about this because I'm not a woman, just like I can't bring myself to give a great f**k about black civil rights because I'm not black. However, I generally think that both groups are disadvantaged to some extent in our society, which still continues to be largely run by white Christian men. What I think is happening here is that a few extreme and ridiculous examples are being used to decry a worthwhile and diverse movement with a passionate fervour that is really bizarre to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Newbornbairn

Newbornbairn

Posted
Posted

Feminists want equality, I want equality aswell, I'm sure everybody does, what kind of person doesn't want equality for everyone? I'd imagine the vast majority do.

I don't. No way should I be forced down to your level.

Tend to find that those who want equality the most are the failures in life that have f**k all to lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pandarilla

pandarilla

Posted
Posted

I don't. No way should I be forced down to your level.

Tend to find that those who want equality the most are the failures in life that have f**k all to lose.

What a strange statement.

Have f**k all to lose? So poor folk?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tamdunk

Tamdunk

Posted
Posted

How many of those apply to women in this country? The frontline combat one and arguably the wage one?

The op basically covers it. That link is a good example to show how much progress has come in certain countries due to the actions of feminists. A lot of them applied in our country. Anyway, the question wasn't specified as relating to the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
banana

banana

Posted
Posted

I just did a google search and this is the first site that came up. Some examples in there.

http://www.borgenmagazine.com/10-examples-gender-inequality-world/

A source! Someone links to a source! :thumsup2

First things first, that's one person's (a young intern as far as I can gather) list that's not necessarily representative of the issue. It does though list sources for each claim, which is a positive - though it seems this list is to an extent just parroting other lists.

Secondly, notice the mismatch between the titled subject and the content:

"10 Examples of Gender Inequality in the World"

vs.

"Despite massive progress, women’s rights remain a critical issue throughout the world... These are ten examples of gender inequality existing in the world today."

...which surprise surprise goes on to list 10 perceived women's rights issues. Nothing on men. Gender inequality indeed, and the usual bias on these issues in the media.

Thirdly, as has been pointed out, that's 8/10 that are not applicable to people the West, 1 big repeated misrepresentation of the facts (wage gap), and 1 bizarre issue that I'll come back to (military).

I don't feel qualified/up to speed enough to be able to comment intelligently on each of the 8 issues in those very different cultures and societies. If the usual media bias like shown in the list above is anything to go by, we're being fed not even half of the story. To clarify, I've no doubt women in those countries have real issues.

Institutional and covert prejudice against women is illegal in this country mainly thanks to the work of feminists

Indeed it is, contrary to the patriarchy nonsense and the media buzz.

Going to need sources backing up the second part of the sentence - you don't have to be a feminist to work for equal rights or points of equality in law. Also, who is to thank for institutional and covert prejudice against men in this country?

...after thousands of years of disenfranchisement, disinheritance (unless there is no other option), unemployment and being treated like chattel (as a father's property, until being given away to a husband). The ideas that our historical unequal laws were based upon continue - that women's opinions are less important, that they are only suited to certain roles or that they love a bit of sexual harassment really. Women are still greatly underrepresented in positions of influence, although I'd argue that that is partly due to the fact that they take more responsibility for child rearing, and this is often through choice.

Again, sources please, which don't exclude to mention the level of rights and responsibilities and hardships that men had over those thousands of years.

Agree with the last point.

I can't bring myself to give a great f**k about this because I'm not a woman, just like I can't bring myself to give a great f**k about black civil rights because I'm not black. However, I generally think that both groups are disadvantaged to some extent in our society, which still continues to be largely run by white Christian men. What I think is happening here is that a few extreme and ridiculous examples are being used to decry a worthwhile and diverse movement with a passionate fervour that is really bizarre to me.

You should if you care about yourself or have men in your life who you care about - brothers, fathers, sons, cousins, friends, colleagues, as modern feminism is giving few shits about you or them, nor the disadvantages you allude to that men face in society. Modern feminism is broadly either working against men, or not specifically for men.

While equality feminism does (did) generally have good aims and tries to follow through on them, radical feminism has taken over during 30-odd years of indoctrination on campuses, the ubiquitous spread of Women's Studies classes, and in academia, which have all fed through into modern media, law, and politics as people have graduated and progressed their careers, become activists, increased their influence. Christian Hoff Sommers, equality feminist and staunch men's rights advocate put it like this, paraphrasing - "We (equality feminists) won the debate (against the radical feminists) in the 1970s. They won the college professorship tenures." And so the Women's Studies courses started and the indoctrination began on campuses, permeated into society, and thus control of the narrative was won.

The op basically covers it. That link is a good example to show how much progress has come in certain countries due to the actions of feminists. A lot of them applied in our country. Anyway, the question wasn't specified as relating to the UK.

If we are to take the list as vaguely representative, it shows the importance of Throbber's question. And what that's getting at it is, what's left for feminism to address (yes, in the West)? The major battles for women's rights have been won. What's left is a desperate scramble to try to stay relevant as an ideology and retain power/influence/money. This now largely involves pushing for special privileges by creating false/biased hysterias/oppressions/victimhoods (some of the big ones being rape culture, wage gap, %representation in jobs, and domestic violence continued on from the 2nd wave of feminism), censoring discussion and demonizing opinion contrary to the narrative, demonizing men and boys, and widely pushing the patriarchy/oppression narrative that underpins all of this.

To emphasise, my problem is with the enormous imbalance in the amount of support/attention/empathy/action (in education, media, law, politics) given to boy's and men's issues compared to girl's and women's issues, and the ignoring, censoring, mocking and outright hostility often shown to boys and men by the modern feminist narrative and unfortunately by society in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sjc

sjc

Posted
Posted

Men have it alright.

We do but suicide rates are higher in men than women which would suggest we don't have it that much easier.

Personally I just think we should accept that men & women are different and persevere to treat everyone the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tamdunk

Tamdunk

Posted
Posted

If you're arguing that feminists are not fighting for equal rights, but rights for women over men, then I'd argue that it doesn't really tie in with the definition of feminists which I posted earlier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...