energyzone Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 All this, "He's only doing what his lawyer told him to do." is bullshit. The lawyer is obliged to tell him how to protect himself. Whether or not he chooses to do the right thing and tell the whole story is totally up to him. I'm beginning to think he's not as thick as I thought after reading some of his testimony, he just cares only about himself and nothing for the families of his victims. My sympathy for him after the last couple of days is approaching zero. What evidence do you think he could have given that would have assisted the Inquiry more than what we've heard so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 All this, "He's only doing what his lawyer told him to do." is bullshit. The lawyer is obliged to tell him how to protect himself. Whether or not he chooses to do the right thing and tell the whole story is totally up to him. I'm beginning to think he's not as thick as I thought after reading some of his testimony, he just cares only about himself and nothing for the families of his victims. My sympathy for him after the last couple of days is approaching zero. Again, I ask. Would you go against your solicitors advice regardless of the scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 What evidence do you think he could have given that would have assisted the Inquiry more than what we've heard so far? His state of mind, how and why he subverted the system, what justifications he might think he has, and any suggestions he has for preventing it happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Again, I ask. Would you go against your solicitors advice regardless of the scenario? That decision would be totally dependent on the scenario. If I'd robbed a bank I would take his advice. If I was asked to explain to the relatives of people I'd mowed down in the street by accident how it happened, and my lawyer told me it might be in my best interests to refuse, I hope and believe I would disregard his advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha/BJFC1938 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 That decision would be totally dependent on the scenario. If I'd robbed a bank I would take his advice. If I was asked to explain to the relatives of people I'd mowed down in the street by accident how it happened, and my lawyer told me it might be in my best interests to refuse, I hope and believe I would disregard his advice. I'm starting to think that he's in denial . If you think about it I reckon 99% of people in this situation would be on suicide watch if you killed 6 people in this manner , not saying that I want the guy to kill himself but I reckon it would be a normal thought in the mind given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1974h Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 There are six folk dead and six families devasted. And yet Harry the ba5tard walks away scot free knowing fine and well he shouldn't have been driving. It's a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 His state of mind, how and why he subverted the system, what justifications he might think he has, and any suggestions he has for preventing it happening again. Aside from his health on the day, why would any of that matter? The facts are clear even without his admissions. The Why isn't important, the How is, and that's already been established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonMan Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 There are six folk dead and six families devasted. And yet Harry the ba5tard walks away scot free knowing fine and well he shouldn't have been driving. It's a joke Aye, it is. I understand that he's probably not an awful person and wasn't acting maliciously, but he's going to have to face up to what has happened. If he's lied, then he's been out on the road while in the knowledge that he was a potential health hazard. Even if he thought nothing would ever happen, the fact that he's possibly lied to a number of different groups about his health means that he's culpable. What needs to be looked into though is whether this could be a more widespread thing. I imagine the guy was concerned that if he was truthful about his health, he'd essentially lose his livelihood in that he was a driver. Could be more people out there, in other professions too, who hide things which could potentially harm their own health and the health of others simply out of fear that if they tell the truth, they'll be out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Aside from his health on the day, why would any of that matter? The facts are clear even without his admissions. The Why isn't important, the How is, and that's already been established. The facts aren't clear. The accusation that he was unconscious at the wheel of a bus is the word of one Blakey type inspector. He could well have been parked up at the depot catching 40 winks. But more importantly as alluded to by TonMan above is the why. If people are too scared to be honest about their health in case they lose their livelihood then perhaps contracts should be arranged where they can change jobs but keep the same pay, or some such arrangement. The details are important if we want to stop this happening again, unlikely as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFAANW Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 There are six folk dead and six families devasted. And yet Harry the ba5tard walks away scot free knowing fine and well he shouldn't have been driving. It's a joke Where's the punchline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Throbber Don't really know what's funny here - I just like joining in. Neither do I and I'm still not sure what the Walter Mitty carry on is all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The criminal intent clearly wasn't there. Clarke is doing the right thing at the moment. I liken it to someone getting hit by a drunk driver or someone driving without a license or even a kid driving. No criminal intent, the only thing illegal was him being on the road in the first place. I blame his boss. The guy stated at the FAI that he would not have hired Clarke if he knew about his medical history. This pretty much alienates anyone applying for a job with a history of poor health. I'm surprised it doesn't violate some disabled equality act. In normal circumstances I'd say charge him with a driving offence and give him a fine and community service BUT at this point there's no way he can receive a fair trial so he should walk free on a technicality. I applaud him for his Bob answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I blame his boss. The guy stated at the FAI that he would not have hired Clarke if he knew about his medical history. This pretty much alienates anyone applying for a job with a history of poor health. I'm surprised it doesn't violate some disabled equality act. . You could be in for a shock when you grow up and join the real world.Unless trolling pays well somewhere and you make a career out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Neither do I and I'm still not sure what the Walter Mitty carry on is all about I don't know either, you're a rubbish inventor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't know either, you're a rubbish inventor. Again i don't have a clue what this is supposed to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Jenkins Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Aye, it is. I understand that he's probably not an awful person and wasn't acting maliciously, but he's going to have to face up to what has happened. If he's lied, then he's been out on the road while in the knowledge that he was a potential health hazard. Even if he thought nothing would ever happen, the fact that he's possibly lied to a number of different groups about his health means that he's culpable. What needs to be looked into though is whether this could be a more widespread thing. I imagine the guy was concerned that if he was truthful about his health, he'd essentially lose his livelihood in that he was a driver. Could be more people out there, in other professions too, who hide things which could potentially harm their own health and the health of others simply out of fear that if they tell the truth, they'll be out of a job. I think we may see many public & private bodies reviewing their background checks prior to employment and possibly looking into medical histories of current employees in charge of dangerous machinery. I can begin to understand why the guy lied in the first place, not condoning it. His self-interest during the FAI is deplorable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I think we may see many public & private bodies reviewing their background checks prior to employment and possibly looking into medical histories of current employees in charge of dangerous machinery. I can begin to understand why the guy lied in the first place, not condoning it. His self-interest during the FAI is deplorable though. The council obviously half-arsed the hiring process - taking it on the say-so of the applicant ticking (or in this case not ticking) a checklist clearly isn't robust enough to prevent someone actively concealing a medical condition to get in. It wouldn't be economically viable to send every applicant for a full medical, but pre-employment checks with their GP and - certainly in the case of someone so obviously middle-aged, overweight and in poor general health as this guy - a follow up with a full medical once they're in would seem the sensible way to go. Reasonable adjustments can be made for most employees with a disability or medical condition to be able to perform their jobs perfectly well, but obviously there have to be some exemptions due to the nature of certain jobs, which is why we're never going to see a blind airline pilot or an infantryman with cerebral palsy any time soon, and also why we shouldn't have had a guy with a long history of blackouts and fainting behind the wheel of a 29-ton vehicle in a city centre. Culpability lies with Clarke at the end of the day - it was him and him alone that lied after all to get the job - but the council don't come out of this smelling of roses either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Again i don't have a clue what this is supposed to mean. Throbber exonerated shocker! http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/waste-piling-up-on-edinburgh-city-centre-streets-1-3865918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Its blatantly obvious if your in Edinburgh to see this problem, my bin store used to have 3 big bins to put our main bin bags in and now there only one and people are constantly having to put the bin bags on the deck of the bin store. Broughton road and Shandwick place areas have this problem as well with not enough bins, i don't blame "Litter bugs" as such because people don't have anywhere to put their black bin bags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Jenkins Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Are we all at the stage where a "hang him high" post would be acceptable? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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