Yet another US shooting

[velo army]

Like a lot of stuff that comes out of the mouths of republicans, the "arm teachers" hogwash is just a tactic to distract from arguments for actual gun reform that the majority of Americans want.

They can't even provide them with jotters and basic equipment never mind the requisite training and a fucking gun.

I saw a good thread on this recently where a guy went through what training would mean. It takes a lot of training for a soldier to be able to kill another human being and to overcome his natural urge not to, so teachers would be having to undergo intensive and long training. I'd like to hear @Trackdaybob's tuppence (shilling, probably) worth but I imagine soldiers also have to be trained to view the world in terms of enemy or friendly. Given the somewhat troublesome psychology of some American teachers in very mixed schools this would make it an even less safe environment for young black pupils. Also, f**k living like that.

Given a lot of the school shooters are children, these teachers would have to be trained to overcome their natural urge not to shoot a child. What does that mean for their psychology on a non-threatening day? Firearms skills are also perishable, so they would have to train frequently. You'd also have to replace the doors and walls of classrooms so that a bullet can't go through them. A teacher shooting at a pupil and missing (or even passing through said pupil) could lead to further fatalities if the bullet goes through a wall or door.

The GOP is now the party of aggressive stupidity though, so them presenting simple solutions (however stupid they are) will be enough for their voter base for now, regardless of the danger it poses. 

[Fullerene]

Regarding a stray bullet going anywhere, most people have seen the famous photo where Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald. 

The bullet did not simply go into Oswald and stop.  Instead it shot around his torso like a pinball, damaging most of his internal organs and except for good fortune would have left his body and gone into the policeman standing beside him.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

 

 

[rowsdower]

He's better than that taxi driver dick.

He's not wrong though, pro life has f**k all to do with babies and everything to do with power.

[Soapy FFC]

7 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Mrs Goggins behind the Post Office counter packing an AR15 is an episode of Postman Pat I absolutely want to see

Sounds like a scene from Hot Fuzz

 

[Bairnardo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61614782

Where to even begin with this. Mind, blown.

[carpetmonster]

12 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61614782

Where to even begin with this. Mind, blown.

That’s been a Fox News talking point for quite some time; spend the money on X instead of Ukraine - I believe last week it was petrol prices. And *specifically* Ukraine rather than just ‘we need this money at home’. See also Tucker Carlson and CPAC’s adventures in Hungary. 

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

I saw a good thread on this recently where a guy went through what training would mean. It takes a lot of training for a soldier to be able to kill another human being and to overcome his natural urge not to, so teachers would be having to undergo intensive and long training. I'd like to hear @Trackdaybob's tuppence (shilling, probably) worth but I imagine soldiers also have to be trained to view the world in terms of enemy or friendly. Given the somewhat troublesome psychology of some American teachers in very mixed schools this would make it an even less safe environment for young black pupils. Also, f**k living like that.

A while back, John Oliver ran a piece about institutional racism in the polis, and showed how there are schools still running classes to train young black kids what to say and do when they're harassed by the cops to try and avoid being shot or assaulted.

Not sure if it was in the same piece, but apparently it's common for black parents to tell their high schoolers that they can't use the family car unless they have a white friend with them.

They're probably all imagining it, but.

Also:

Spoiler

2 hours ago, velo army said:

I'd like to hear @Trackdaybob's tuppence

Hey man, you do you.

 

[TxRover]

9 hours ago, dirty dingus said:

Where the gym teacher conceals his glock might also be traumatic to the kids. Arming teachers is a non starter there is no support for it within the teaching community, it's just look a squirrel distraction from the GOP and NRA .

A 2019 survey of more than 2,900 teachers around the US conducted by a researcher at California State University, Northridge, found 95.3% believed teachers should not be carrying guns in the classroom.

“I went to college to become a teacher, not a law enforcement officer,” said Jourden Armstrong, a teacher for 15 years in Michigan. “Commonsense gun reform is an absolutely necessary component to curbing this uniquely American problem.”

 

Sorry to let you down, but this is a thing in a number of areas, with teacher support…BUT, for a very good reason. In certain remote school location, the nearest police response can easily be 20-30 minutes away. In these cases, districts have adopted a policy of allowing trained volunteer teachers to carry concealed firearms. Note these districts also have hardened their facilities with secure entry vestibules, etc.

Now, all that being said, it is still a largely bullshit distraction argument by the NRA and such. I was a parent volunteer at an elementary school with secured access (one entry point, unless you had a card key), and part of the duty was to circle the school twice a day checking all the doors, etc. You would regularly find a door propped open while someone, without a card key, ran a bag out to the trash or such…or perhaps the door they needed to use lacked a card reader. Security sounds nice in principle, but people regularly undermine it.

[velo army]

17 minutes ago, BFTD said:

A while back, John Oliver ran a piece about institutional racism in the polis, and showed how there are schools still running classes to train young black kids what to say and do when they're harassed by the cops to try and avoid being shot or assaulted.

Not sure if it was in the same piece, but apparently it's common for black parents to tell their high schoolers that they can't use the family car unless they have a white friend with them.

They're probably all imagining it, but.

Also:

  Reveal hidden contents

Hey man, you do you.

 

Aye, it's euphemistically called "the talk" by Black people in America. 

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, velo army said:

Aye, it's euphemistically called "the talk" by Black people in America. 

Imagine having to sit your kids down and tell them that the authorities, and plenty of random strangers, are always going to assume they're a criminal on sight.

After centuries, that's probably not a tradition that will ever be able to be retired either.

[dirty dingus]

27 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Sorry to let you down, but this is a thing in a number of areas, with teacher support…BUT, for a very good reason. In certain remote school location, the nearest police response can easily be 20-30 minutes away. In these cases, districts have adopted a policy of allowing trained volunteer teachers to carry concealed firearms. Note these districts also have hardened their facilities with secure entry vestibules, etc.

Now, all that being said, it is still a largely bullshit distraction argument by the NRA and such. I was a parent volunteer at an elementary school with secured access (one entry point, unless you had a card key), and part of the duty was to circle the school twice a day checking all the doors, etc. You would regularly find a door propped open while someone, without a card key, ran a bag out to the trash or such…or perhaps the door they needed to use lacked a card reader. Security sounds nice in principle, but people regularly undermine it.

It's so fucked up that you have to have this sort of security and protection in an education facility for weans. What does that do to the mindset of these kids when you think your basically under attack. It will more likely breed a generation of kill or be killed trigger happy citizens in a self perpetuating cycle of gun violence. I think there should be a total ban on all assault weapons and a limit of hand guns with a set limit of ammunition for "home protection" If you hunt you get your gun out of lockup in season with a limited amount of ammunition too. All else is just dick waving gun nuttery. 

[velo army]

24 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Imagine having to sit your kids down and tell them that the authorities, and plenty of random strangers, are always going to assume they're a criminal on sight.

After centuries, that's probably not a tradition that will ever be able to be retired either.

What's even more fucked up is that they learn (especially black boys) early on that they're considered a threat. I was out for coffee here with a black friend from Cleveland, Ohio. It was the cafe at Duthie Park on a wet Saturday so it was hoaching with weans. Said weans were doing as they do, running about, playing and being a bit boisterous. My friend told me that in the US there is no way black children would be able to behave that way. It had actually become a perverse source of pride among black mothers that their children were much better behaved and obedient than some of their white counterparts, but it came from the knowledge that black boisterousness could (and historically was) misinterpreted as threatening. 

[parsforlife]

3 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61614782

Where to even begin with this. Mind, blown.

Russian money still finding its way to trump then

[Soapy FFC]

2 hours ago, TxRover said:

Sorry to let you down, but this is a thing in a number of areas, with teacher support…BUT, for a very good reason. In certain remote school location, the nearest police response can easily be 20-30 minutes away. In these cases, districts have adopted a policy of allowing trained volunteer teachers to carry concealed firearms. Note these districts also have hardened their facilities with secure entry vestibules, etc.

That would still be a lot faster than the apparent useful response from the police the other day

[ICTChris]

Trump probably wants to divert long range rocket systems set for Ukraine and install them on primary school roofs.

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, Soapy FFC said:

That would still be a lot faster than the apparent useful response from the police the other day

Not really true, as the first three officers attempted to enter the rooms the suspect was in and tow were grazed by rounds. That fixed the suspect to those two connected rooms…to the detriment of the occupants and the advantage of the rest of the school.

I still don’t understand why they didn’t have a guy outside, hammer on the door to draw a response and while the shooter was looking at the door the guy peeks in the window and caps the nut job.

[Binos]

39 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Not really true, as the first three officers attempted to enter the rooms the suspect was in and tow were grazed by rounds. That fixed the suspect to those two connected rooms…to the detriment of the occupants and the advantage of the rest of the school.

I still don’t understand why they didn’t have a guy outside, hammer on the door to draw a response and while the shooter was looking at the door the guy peeks in the window and caps the nut job.

That would have involved them having brain cells 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

UK Police obviously operate in a very different way due to not being routinely armed, I have knowledge of the processes around managing a terrorist attack (essentially the same way this incident in Texas and other active shooter incidents play out) and certainly the objective is to neutralise the threat as quickly as possible, no fucking about, in, get the bad guy apprehended. Not defending them not storming the room etc, but it seems someone made a crazy call to ‘contain’ the shooter because they thought there was no one in the room with him, for me thats fucking nuts. 
I cant find the tweet but I saw one doing the rounds and its the guy who wrote the NYPD standard operating procedure on active shooters and he tore the texan police to shreds. 
I absolutely do not understand the way policing over there works (or doesnt), ive pointed out before that the 50 miles surrounding Disney World in Orlando, I can count 48 municipal police forces (there may be more im just counting the ones I recognise as being close by), 3 college police forces, 3 School district police forces, 3 airport police forces, 12 county sheriff departments and 6 state agencies actively involved in policing that one area, this is mirrored all over America and thats before you add in federal agencies. So here you see how messed up things can get, all different agencies who could potentially be in the area of incidents who dont actively interoperate, the whole thing is nuts. I also absolutely do not get the whole elected sheriff thing. 

[IrishBhoy]

Ive only ever been to America once, and it was for work purposes. It was in a town in North Philadelphia where I think the gun laws are much stricter than Texas etc., but if you have the correct license you are allowed to own a gun, but not carry it in public. 
 

One of the guys we were working alongside was an ex marine, Jason Smyth, who had been in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was also the biggest psycho I’ve ever been in the company of, and the only stories he told were of him shooting people in the head. The manager of the company had took us out for a meal one night and we got talking about this Jason character, saying he was a good worker but also maybe a complete mental case. The manager agreed and said when he received his CV, the first page was about his career and achievements and the next 3 pages were a list of guns he was qualified to shoot. This was for a job repairing compressors. 
 

This guy had all the licenses to own basically any weapon he wanted, and kept 2 handguns and a rifle in his car that he said was for his protection. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the vicinity of this guy if he had a biro pen in his hand, never mind a gun, but that’s the sort of people you’re unknowingly surrounded by in America.