Gordon EF Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 minute ago, sparky88 said: Sturgeon knew that May wouldn't/couldn't agree to a referendum before the two year article 50 period had passed. The call for the referendum was designed to be rejected so that sturgeon could play the grievance card again. Yep. I think privately the SNP leadership will be intensely satisfied with May blocking a referendum before Brexit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Bruce Robertson Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Sturgeon knew that May wouldn't/couldn't agree to a referendum before the two year article 50 period had passed. The call for the referendum was designed to be rejected so that sturgeon could play the grievance card again. Pardon? Why couldn't / wouldn't May agree to that timeframe?When has Sturgeon played the grievance card?Please be VERY SPECIFIC in your answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, DI Bruce Robertson said: Pardon? Why couldn't / wouldn't May agree to that timeframe? When has Sturgeon played the grievance card? Please be VERY SPECIFIC in your answers. Noting in particular that building on a manifesto commitment does not equal a grievance card. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, sparky88 said: Sturgeon knew that May wouldn't/couldn't agree to a referendum before the two year article 50 period had passed. The call for the referendum was designed to be rejected so that sturgeon could play the grievance card again. Surely any nation whose government is denied the right to a ballot when it chooses to hold one, because of a political union, has a legitimate grievance? If the UK was ever denied the right to hold a ballot by any higher tier parliament, I'm sure it would be considered even more egregious than just a "grievance". Edited March 17, 2017 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Is there another democratic country in the whole wide world where the leader of the opposition gets to tell the elected Government what they can and can't do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Fide said: Is there another democratic country in the whole wide world where the leader of the opposition gets to tell the elected Government what they can and can't do? In Scotland we have 2 parties in government and opposition at the same time. Very bizarre situation! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Fide said: Is there another democratic country in the whole wide world where the leader of the opposition gets to tell the elected Government what they can and can't do? No 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, sparky88 said: Sturgeon knew that May wouldn't/couldn't agree to a referendum before the two year article 50 period had passed. May could quite clearly agree to do so: she could have came out yesterday to the media and said "Scotland has a right to hold a referendum on date x; the Tories will of course be campaigning for a No vote". There's absolutely nothing to prevent May from doing so. The reason why May doesn't want to fight a referendum on the SNP's timetable is because her Brexit negotiations will be in a state of utter shambles at that point, so she would rather shunt whatever God-awful deal she gets through an utterly craven Westminster Parliament, before then telling Scots to sit down and eat their cereal. Which is why she has spent the entire time floundering, ever since the Scottish FM magnificently sunk May's plan to invoke Article 50 at the start of this week. The only thing that Sturgeon could have possibly known in the above situation is that May is a complete moron with no political nous in a high-stakes situation. Playing that advantage is exactly what the Scottish people should demand from their highest political representative. Edited March 17, 2017 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 The Conservative rhetoric since the plans for a new referendum has been tragic. Surely even the most staunch Unionist on here will admit that Independence is inevitable now? I can't think of any reason why probably around 35-40% of the electorate would switch from Yes to No; the red herring that the Smith Commission ultimately transpired to be probably sealed that. May's phrasing of things like the "precious Union" is complete waffle, and you can just about sense the Tories have a grasp that the end is nigh. I'm also not sure what good another election would be, in a sense, given that a pro-Independence majority already is in place in HR. Personally, I'm curious to see what other stalling tactics the UK Govt. pull out. Ironically, this phoney war probably suits both sides best for the time being. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, Lurkst said: In Scotland we have 2 parties in government and opposition at the same time. Very bizarre situation! Yeah, one of them got about 46% of the overall vote and have about 46% of the elected representatives. The other got about 38% overall, and 22% in Scotland, and have over 50% of the elected representatives. Bizarre indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Sturgeon spot on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: It's not the same without James Richardson translating over coffee Edited March 17, 2017 by DA Baracus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 4 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said: Didn't catch it but Mays speech had , "independence has been their plan all along" in it. Huge if true Of course it fucking has! It said so in their manifesto. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Blootoon87 said: 'Scotland trades four times as much with England than Europe', we keep being told. Yet May says after Brexit, Britain will still be able to trade with the rest of Europe no bother. So what exactly would be the problem with trading with an independent Scotland in or out of the EU? What May says and what will happen are separate but related things. Some of them will be lies and bizarrely some will be true but even she probably doesn't know which Until we actually see some detail the whole discussion is somewhat abstract and notional. At the moment Brexiteers are still capable of having their cake and eating it without having to face up to the weakness in their position. One of the reasons not to rush Indyref 2 is that the attractiveness of various plans for Scotland depend on what happens south of the border. Access to English controlled markets is an important argument and the more closed the English controlled economy is the bigger the negative impact of leaving it but simultaneously the bigger the negative impact of staying in that we'd be shackling ours future to 17 million maniacs bent on self destruction2. I'm a proud EU citizen3 but if the English do go full on fucktard4 Brexit and make it practically impossible to do business with the EU from England or do business with England from the EU then we're kind of fucked either in the EU or the UK and our best chance of making a go of things will be to go for a half way house EEA/Norway/Switzerland solution so that we can try and get a different arrangement with England than the EU gets and a different arrangement with the EU than England gets. 1 for balance I should point out that their opponents are still capable of insisting that no cake will be had or eaten. 2 This may be an overly colourful use of language, but you get the idea 3 II've got a flag and everything 4 Technical term from International Trade Theory first coined by Paul Krugman in his 2002 paper "Protectionism is for utter cockwombles" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 BREAKING Putin shocks the international community by blocking a planned democratic vote in the breakaway region of... hang on not Putin David Halliday is excellent on Twitter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting how many different ways you can view the same poll. Pro-Indy majority is evident but wasn't reported though I'm sure the BBC will be all over this now... http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/theresa-is-tanking-blow-for-autocrat-pm.html?m=1 Quote Constituency ballot :SNP 51% (+3)Conservatives 24% (-1)Labour 14% (-1)Liberal Democrats 6% (n/c)Greens 4% (+1)UKIP 1% (n/c)Regional list ballot :SNP 40% (+1)Conservatives 25% (+1)Labour 14% (n/c)Greens 12% (+1)Liberal Democrats 5% (-1)UKIP 2% (-2)RISE 1% (n/c) Quote I'm still not convinced that Davidson has put quite enough roadblocks in the way, though. Allow me to suggest a few more perfectly reasonable pre-conditions - * There cannot be an independence referendum until Bashar al-Assad gives the nod. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Crùbag said: Interesting how many different ways you can view the same poll. Pro-Indy majority is evident but wasn't reported though I'm sure the BBC will be all over this now... http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/theresa-is-tanking-blow-for-autocrat-pm.html?m=1 Was this also the poll where 16-17 year olds weren't asked? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Peak nat but. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Fide said: Is there another democratic country in the whole wide world where the leader of the opposition gets to tell the elected Government what they can and can't do? When you say "another" you make it sound like Scotland is one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapelhall chap Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 5 hours ago, dogmc said: Does noone in any of the unionist parties realise that this sort of pish is golddust to the yes campaign? The hysterical nonsense in the press bbc website n twitter will just make yes seem like the only sensible option. The total headless chicken approach isn't going to persuade yes voters to reconsider is it. Its very similar to what a UKIP guy on QT some years ago said about stopping the shoveling of Barnett money over Hadrian's wall. They appear not to have noticed that the area to the north is actually in England. It includes of course Berwick and the only English side in the SPFL, and Carlisle and the border area where wee former British Army "Rory" the Tory has built his cairn. Maybe they'll take the stones for the new wall. Maybe the post is not real-surely a Welsh Farmer knows where walls are placed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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