When will indyref2 happen?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

9 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585

Keep these coming please.

Good to see Malcolm fucking Rifkind taking over Mundell's toilet floor licking duties, just as the subservient c**t did for Thatcher.

I expect there will be another Johnson press-release saying he "mis-spoke". 

[SandyCromarty]

10 hours ago, Caledonian1 said:

I think Lesley Riddoch would be a good shout to head up a YES campaign.  Blair Jenkins were pretty invisible and whilst came across as a decent guy he was less than inspiring

She gave a very good speech at the conclusion of the Inverness Independence march and is passionate in her belief.

[SandyCromarty]

I don't think that any pro Independence supporters ever thought that Bojo the clown and his arse licking tory buddies were pro Devolution and vehemtly anti Scottish Independence.

Mind you he's in the shite in england with the covid crisis so he'll come up with any crap to appease the rabid right wing unionists. 

[SandyCromarty]

Neither Douglas Ross or any of the Scottish MP's/MSP's would come on GMS this morning for comments on Bojo's 'Devolution was a Disaster' statement.

Now there's a fuckin surprise, the shites are hugely vocal when they think Nicola and the SNP are at fault but when their glorious leader makes a twat of himself and riles the Scottish people there is absolute silence.

Cowards.

Edited November 17, 2020 by SandyCromarty

[effeffsee_the2nd]

So tony blair set up devolution in Scotland and wales in the 90s
Given that there is no such thing as doing the right thing in politics, only gaining and preserving power.
What did they think would happen?
Labour were always going to lose Westminster to the torries at one time or another so having devolved administrations in areas where conservative votes were much lower than the south of England served to give them back up options
But they must have knew that there was a chance they could lose power especially to separatists in Scotland. I don’t believe that tony blare would have been so blasé as to go “och don’t worry they’ll never win outright “

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

23 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

So tony blair set up devolution in Scotland and wales in the 90s
Given that there is no such thing as doing the right thing in politics, only gaining and preserving power.
What did they think would happen?
Labour were always going to lose Westminster to the torries at one time or another so having devolved administrations in areas where conservative votes were much lower than the south of England served to give them back up options
But they must have knew that there was a chance they could lose power especially to separatists in Scotland. I don’t believe that tony blare would have been so blasé as to go “och don’t worry they’ll never win outright “

It's about time that the myth Labour gave Scotland a devolved parliament out of the kindness of their hearts was properly debunked. The EU piled on pressure and Labour came up with a settlement. In exchange for a devolved parliament, they would shift the angle of the maritime border, effectively taking 6000sq miles of Scotland's eastern sea. This allowed them to fudge the oil revenue figures and promote the argument that Scotland would be too financially weak to ever leave the UK.

Edited November 17, 2020 by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Mr Heliums]

36 minutes ago, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:

It's about time that the myth Labour gave Scotland a devolved parliament out of the kindness of their hearts was properly debunked. The EU piled on pressure and Labour came up with a settlement. In exchange for a devolved parliament, they would shift the angle of the maritime border, effectively taking 6000sq miles of Scotland's eastern sea. This allowed them to fudge the oil revenue figures and promote the argument that Scotland would be too financially weak to ever leave the UK.

Exactly. And Labour's motive wasn't for better government. It was - at least partially - to stop the move towards independence.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Mr Heliums

[effeffsee_the2nd]

15 minutes ago, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:

It's about time that the myth Labour gave Scotland a devolved parliament out of the kindness of their hearts was properly debunked. The EU piled on pressure and Labour came up with a settlement. In exchange for a devolved parliament, they would shift the angle of the maritime border, effectively taking 6000sq miles of Scotland's eastern sea. This allowed them to fudge the oil revenue figures and promote the argument that Scotland would be too financially weak to ever leave the UK.

Don't know about the last bit mate, the vast majority of oil is way north of that line, forget Aberdeen the fields themselves are on the same latitude as Sutherland and Orkney .  there are gas fields of the English coast but again most are pretty far south. the border area of the sea is quite barron

[effeffsee_the2nd]

1 minute ago, Mr Heliums said:

Exactly. And Labour's motive wasn't for better government. It was to stop the move towards independence.

Without a vehicle like a parliament though, the snp could huff and puff all they want but could never call a referendum on independence, so not really

[Stellaboz]

1 minute ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Don't know about the last bit mate, the vast majority of oil is way north of that line, forget Aberdeen the fields themselves are on the same latitude as Sutherland and Orkney .  there are gas fields of the English coast but again most are pretty far south. the border area of the sea is quite barron

So why did they move it? 

There's also an argument that the likes of Donald Dewar really wanted to see progression for Scotland and devolution was a sensible step. 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Just now, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Don't know about the last bit mate, the vast majority of oil is way north of that line, forget Aberdeen the fields themselves are on the same latitude as Sutherland and Orkney .  there are gas fields of the English coast but again most are pretty far south. the border area of the sea is quite barron

There were 7 major oil fields set up there at the time. So claiming that area would have had a pretty significant impact on the figures.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Its ‘separatists’ if youre a centre left democratic party looking to leave the uk, but its business as usual and not ‘separatist’ if youre a far right tory removing Scotland from the EU against its will and stealing devolved powers. The UK is an absolute embarrassment of a country. 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

37 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I never really get the maritime border argument. When it was just a line going east from the border, this wasn't fair on England. Now it goes more or less perpendicular from the coast at the border, that's fairer isn't it?

It's so fair actually, i'm surprised Newcastle hasn't declared independence yet.

[jakedee]

I never really get the maritime border argument. When it was just a line going east from the border, this wasn't fair on England. Now it goes more or less perpendicular from the coast at the border, that's fairer isn't it?

Not exactly perpendicular

[NotThePars]

Bad moves from whoever dropped all that green sludge south of the line but big of the Westminster government to not make it Scotland’s problem.

[Wee-Bey]

Is it not just Dutch fisherman in that area anyway ?

[The DA]

Jenrick has also just accused the SNP of trying to break up the UK.  Shocking if true.  Questions for Nicola to answer.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Johnson reckons Blair's worst crime was bringing in Devolution and Blair reckons his own worst decision was to introduce FOI legislation.

I feel like they are both ignoring the elephant sized WMD dossier in the room.

[Caledonian1]

5 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I don't think that any pro Independence supporters ever thought that Bojo the clown and his arse licking tory buddies were pro Devolution and vehemtly anti Scottish Independence.

Mind you he's in the shite in england with the covid crisis so he'll come up with any crap to appease the rabid right wing unionists. 

but....but.....there was the VOW...that's only strengthened the Scottish Parliament......most devolved parliament in the world...six years on I am sure all of that has been implemented hasn't it.. David Cameron signed every copy of the Daily record himself....didnt he?

[Merkie84]

Labour set up the devolved parliaments to run as their own little fiefdoms for the times they would inevitably be out of power in Westminster. Nothing to do with empowering or providing better representation for the people they rule over. 

When they were set up labour was used to thumping majorities in Scotland and Wales and couldn’t see a time when they would be any worse than senior coalition partners in either chamber.

It could be argued than Scottish labour never seen the SNPs 2007 win coming and still haven’t recovered from it. 

The time to speak up for devolution was in 2012 when the format and question of the referendum was being debated. Had they offered a devo max option then, it would likely have won and maybe seen a resurgence of their fortunes

As it was, they went for a straight yes/ no referendum and stood shoulder to shoulder with the tories on the no side.

They made their bed, they should be prepared to lie in it.