CambieBud Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 There are two foundation stones upon which independence is built. The first is an irrational loathing of The Basturt English and the second is the notion of Scottish exceptionalism. The first is odious and the second is ignorant.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]even for you that is truly moronic kinky. Remember it has f all to do with you as you don’t live here. TheMood has steadily moved and continues to move toward independence. All your foaming at the mouth unionist drivel will not change that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 5 hours ago, MixuFruit said: Anyone going 'look at these bams, that's you that is' is essentially applying this trait, which evolved in a completely different setting to the modern world, and that is comforting to them because their brain is still the same as that of someone 80,000 years ago. I think the Yes campaign in 2014 was far too guilty of this and I remember saying daft stuff at the time like Scots were more moral because of our politics. Remember that graphic that was a football team with all the good guys on one side and then like BNP, UKIP, SDL, Combat18 on the other side? Does anyone think that did anything to persuade someone to go from No to Yes? All this stuff is just the equivalent of hitching up your animal skins and baring your arse at those guys on the other side of the valley. Yes, I believe this is mainly caused by a tendency to feel the need to 'overstate' the case, i.e. 'we need to be the very best to even justify wanting to do this' which is not warranted or necessary. There are a couple of other ways this manifests itself. Screaming 'no more Tories in Scotland ever!'. Now I will be at the front of the queue saying I don't want to be governed by Tories from a parliament 400 miles away. I will also be at the front of the queue saying that an independent Scotland needs to make sure it strikes a far fairer balance between business interests and those of the rest of Scottish society, and doesn't allow the former to rip the pish out of the latter the way the UK Government so often seems to do. But it's not terribly realistic to, in effect, demand that there would be no party for business interests in an independent Scotland; they do have a role in society. I just hope their party wouldn't win untrammelled power in Scotland. Along the same lines are appeals to history. To some degree, these have a role but people allow it often to be their sole justification for why Scotland should be independent. Again, I think it's because folk think precedent is needed to justify it. But actually I think it's not needed - I think Westminster does a shit job of governing the place, and is too far away to have concern for the needs of much of Scotland. To me, these are justifications enough to want a future free of rule from 'too far away', where we can attempt (at least) to have government that understands and responds to Scottish needs (and probably then there has to be more power delegated down to local government as well, who will know local needs even better). So while I think it's important to know your history, it isn't and shouldn't be the only justification for deciding how you want to be governed in future. What's important is what's best for lives now and to come - no justification beyond that should really be needed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: Good post. Tories only get to enact the worst excesses of their most ghoulish members because of FPTP. Proper PR like most of the rest of Europe is what is needed to force compromise and humanity into their realistic policy goals. Yes, as I say, I wouldn't want untrammelled Scot Tory rule (and preferably they'd never be the main party ever). But the 'no Tories in Scotland!' thing is silly. If a party didn't exist for them on Indy Day, one would pop up to fill the vacuum as that's just how political spectrums work. PR is good news, as you say. Edited September 24, 2020 by Eddie Hitler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 56 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: Good post. Tories only get to enact the worst excesses of their most ghoulish members because of FPTP. Proper PR like most of the rest of Europe is what is needed to force compromise and humanity into their realistic policy goals. FPTP is indefensible. Though it’s amazing the amount of folk who think a majority of people voted Tory at the last election. Even in England it was probably under 50%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: FPTP is indefensible. Though it’s amazing the amount of folk who think a majority of people voted Tory at the last election. Even in England it was probably under 50%. The Tories retained power with 43.6% of the vote (with 13.9 million votes) while Labour got 32.1% (10.2 million votes). In a country with a population of 66 million, for a party to get elected with a majority with only 13.9 million votes is madness. The majority of people did not vote for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 12 hours ago, CambieBud said: even for you that is truly moronic kinky. Remember it has f all to do with you as you don’t live here. The Mood has steadily moved and continues to move toward independence. All your foaming at the mouth unionist drivel will not change that. If you daft wee tartan gonks want to partition our nation state along ethno-nationalist lines it has f everything to do with me -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: If you daft wee tartan gonks want to partition our nation state along ethno-nationalist lines it has f everything to do with me Even if that was true, why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: If you daft wee tartan gonks want to partition our nation state along ethno-nationalist lines it has f everything to do with me *Except from conferring the right to vote on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Yes, I believe this is mainly caused by a tendency to feel the need to 'overstate' the case, i.e. 'we need to be the very best to even justify wanting to do this' which is not warranted or necessary. There are a couple of other ways this manifests itself. Screaming 'no more Tories in Scotland ever!'. Now I will be at the front of the queue saying I don't want to be governed by Tories from a parliament 400 miles away. I will also be at the front of the queue saying that an independent Scotland needs to make sure it strikes a far fairer balance between business interests and those of the rest of Scottish society, and doesn't allow the former to rip the pish out of the latter the way the UK Government so often seems to do. But it's not terribly realistic to, in effect, demand that there would be no party for business interests in an independent Scotland; they do have a role in society. I just hope their party wouldn't win untrammelled power in Scotland. Along the same lines are appeals to history. To some degree, these have a role but people allow it often to be their sole justification for why Scotland should be independent. Again, I think it's because folk think precedent is needed to justify it. But actually I think it's not needed - I think Westminster does a shit job of governing the place, and is too far away to have concern for the needs of much of Scotland. To me, these are justifications enough to want a future free of rule from 'too far away', where we can attempt (at least) to have government that understands and responds to Scottish needs (and probably then there has to be more power delegated down to local government as well, who will know local needs even better). So while I think it's important to know your history, it isn't and shouldn't be the only justification for deciding how you want to be governed in future. What's important is what's best for lives now and to come - no justification beyond that should really be needed. The idiocy of this post is that it 1. decides government on the basis of distance and 2. regards Scotland as a politically homogeneous. The first fails the Father Dougal large/far away test as we know parts of Scotland furthest away from London don't want rule from E'burgh and parts of Scotland nearest to E'burgh want to remain in Union. You Natters simply have no sense of perspective. The second is a little more invidious. That you should treat Scotland as a single voting/social/political/economic entity is, I know, the wish of you Natters but this simply is not the case. Scotland is too complex a place to fit in to your daft wee Natter view of the world. We learned this when your thesis was tested in the only place that counts - the ballot box in 2014 - and was found wanting. I know you want to rail against The English and The Tories. Some Natters want to take it further, even on here, and resort to terrorism to achieve their aim. It's all pretty pathetic, though. Border guards at Gretna, eh? Edited September 24, 2020 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Border guards at Gretna, eh? You keep saying that and I don't know why. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-ed-miliband-raises-prospect-guards-along-border-if-scotland-votes-yes-9716639.html Scottish independence: Ed Miliband raises prospect of guards along the border if Scotland votes 'Yes' in referendum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 15 hours ago, MixuFruit said: Scottish society probably is more moral than English society but that's a function of there being a greater proportion of more educated people in Scotland than England. That's a product of a decision by the leading lights of the Scottish Enlightenment to democratise education, while England maintained high barriers to entry. Ironically enough given these were in the main enthusiasts for the union, it's this legacy that drives the realisation in Scotland that our nominal tribe, Britain, isn't much good in the 21st century. This is a funny half truth but that the idea of Scottish society being more moral than England's has no basis in reality. On education. Yes. we were pioneers. A school in every parish and a bible in every house. Not so much an enlightenment idea as a reformation one. And yes, we were very much ahead of the curve compared to our English pals. Hence we post-reformation Scots dominating Empire. What you Natters are trying to do, though, is deliberately dismantle education in Scotland in the 21st Century and, clearly, this is to deal with the truth that you acknowledged: An educated population is a Unionist population. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 17 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Kincy continually uses the most extreme supporters of independence as being the typical independence supporter...Anyone who knows me will tell you I am as far removed from the flag waving tartan gonk as you could get Forgive me for not shedding a tear here. You act in every respect as one of the worst Natters on here. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 If you daft wee tartan gonks want to partition our nation state along ethno-nationalist lines it has f everything to do with me The idiocy of this post is that it 1. decides government on the basis of distance and 2. regards Scotland as a politically homogeneous. The first fails the Father Dougal large/far away test as we know parts of Scotland furthest away from London don't want rule from E'burgh and parts of Scotland nearest to E'burgh want to remain in Union. You Natters simply have no sense of perspective. The second is a little more invidious. That you should treat Scotland as a single voting/social/political/economic entity is, I know, the wish of you Natters but this simply is not the case. Scotland is too complex a place to fit in to your daft wee Natter view of the world. We learned this when your thesis was tested in the only place that counts - the ballot box in 2014 - and was found wanting. I know you want to rail against The English and The Tories. Some Natters want to take it further, even on here, and resort to terrorism to achieve their aim. It's all pretty pathetic, though. Border guards at Gretna, eh? This is a funny half truth but that the idea of Scottish society being more moral than England's has no basis in reality. On education. Yes. we were pioneers. A school in every parish and a bible in every house. Not so much an enlightenment idea as a reformation one. And yes, we were very much ahead of the curve compared to our English pals. Hence we post-reformation Scots dominating Empire. What you Natters are trying to do, though, is deliberately dismantle education in Scotland in the 21st Century and, clearly, this is to deal with the truth that you acknowledged: An educated population is a Unionist population. Forgive me for not shedding a tear here. You act in every respect as one of the worst Natters on here.I feel guilty being entertained by this, when it's quite apparent you have a serious drink problem. Then I remember that you're still a bitter, bigoted *** and it's entertaining again. Keep it coming [emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Forgive me for not shedding a tear here. You act in every respect as one of the worst Natters on here. Jesus wept. As someone who abstained in 2014 I would doubt that very much. Would love to see any quotes from me that are in any way ethno-nationalist - you won't. You truly have lost the plot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Kincy gets a lot of stick for being a drunk, but I think he's just high after huffing the farts of a dying empire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 You can tell when the long weekend starts eh? Midnight on Thursday, early hours of Friday, and lo! Kinky reappears, dragging out his old tropes. I see him giggling away, thinking “reeled them in again”. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Unionists are in hysterics and weeping angry tears of hate over an imaginary hard border and border guards etc should Scotland become independent. Meanwhile, a real border is being put in place, with document checks, in Kent, and Unionists just shrug their shoulders. It's almost as if... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) I've only just this week learned that I in fact want border guards at Gretna and hate England despite never holding these opinions at any point in my life. I'm not sure why I think these things but I thank Gincardine for pointing it out to me. Edited September 25, 2020 by GiGi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 "Tartan gonks" at 2am on a Friday morning LawNxKgy_VqcJfZ9.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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