When will indyref2 happen?

[1320Lichtie]

 

It wasn't though. It had resorted to Jim Murphy on a crate and the Russians landing on our airfields. I think there's more parallels between the good guys campaigns than people are willing to acknowledge and that's down to their constitutional leanings. I've said before I'll vote for independence every time it comes up but this intellectual dishonesty is telling IMO that SNP supporters are a bit feart.

 

As opposed to Theresa May going into hiding? Of course it was. It might've been project fear but it was extremely successful. Darling was even getting credited with debate wins. May was absolutely nowhere to be seen and the Tories were all over the place. Better Together had strong support across all parties. It's not even comparable.

 

I'm not feart. Just not understand the Corbyn hype. It's bizarre.

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

And I voted for Corbyn's leadership in this election, not Scottish Labour.

No you didn't, because you live in a parliamentary and not a presidential democracy. 

[NotThePars]

Aye alright Kincardine.

[MARYHILLISWONDERFUL]

46 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Also Theresa May's electoral campaign was one of the worst in living memory. The 2014 No campaign was pretty dreadful but nowhere near as bad- that is quite obvious.

Yep, May's campaign this year was the worst one I've seen in my life. How the f*ck can she singlehandedly destroy a 20 something point lead, lose her majority and then to jump in to bed with some anti-gay rights, climate change deniers just because she feels she has some divine right to be Prime Minister!

She is not fit to be Prime Minister, it's just as well we have the SNP standing up for Scotland.

[Loondave1]

You should really look at the Scottish voting patterns

It's all right reaching for the comfort blanket of "voting patterns" but the bottom line is the difference between what the SNP achieved and the Indy2 mandate they would have flagged up if everything had gone to expectation was a huge shock and disappointment much like TMs vanishing 100+ majority.By all means stick your head in the sand and say "but we won" but remember the perception of it from outside the echo chamber is one of mild failure and to pretend otherwise and plough on as if nothing adverse happened will probably end in more tears.3 years after 2014 the Indy bus that was arriving soon is up on bricks in the garage.A wee bit humility and listening would help.

[AUFC90]

2 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:

It's all right reaching for the comfort blanket of "voting patterns" but the bottom line is the difference between what the SNP achieved and the Indy2 mandate they would have flagged up if everything had gone to expectation was a huge shock and disappointment much like TMs vanishing 100+ majority.By all means stick your head in the sand and say "but we won" but remember the perception of it from outside the echo chamber is one of mild failure and to pretend otherwise and plough on as if nothing adverse happened will probably end in more tears.3 years after 2014 the Indy bus that was arriving soon is up on bricks in the garage.A wee bit humility and listening would help.

Listen to who ? The slightly smaller percentage of the population who favour independence or the slightly bigger chunk that don't. I doubt the FM will be listening to out and out roasters on either side to be fair. Most people don't talk about independence every day and even the majority of indy supporters don't want one until after Brexit......they stayed at home. Labour vote rose 1% in Scotland with half the rise attributed to Ian Murray and the Tories have pretty much maxed out their god save the queen, red white and blue vote. Your desperation to tar an entire movement as done based on a Westminster election that many people, including me, couldnt really give a shit about is pretty tiresome. Support for independence hasn't dropped one little bit despite 3 years of SNP bad, constant attacks from 3 political parties and SNP approval ratings dropping a little. For the last time....no c**t wants another one right now....no one wants to talk about another one right.....apart from you of course. You better hope that Brexit isn't the complete mess it's looking like. Will the likes of May, Davidson, Dugdale, Rennie and Jackie fucking Ballie be able to mount another, negative better together campaign with no reasons to vote for the UK ? I'm not convinced.

I'm just happy that I don't vote for any of those useless charlatans. They could not run a gang bang in a brothel.

[Loondave1]

Listen to who ? The slightly smaller percentage of the population who favour independence or the slightly bigger chunk that don't. I doubt the FM will be listening to out and out roasters on either side to be fair. Most people don't talk about independence every day and even the majority of indy supporters don't want one until after Brexit......they stayed at home. Labour vote rose 1% in Scotland with half the rise attributed to Ian Murray and the Tories have pretty much maxed out their god save the queen, red white and blue vote. Your desperation to tar an entire movement as done based on a Westminster election that many people, including me, couldnt really give a shit about is pretty tiresome. Support for independence hasn't dropped one little bit despite 3 years of SNP bad, constant attacks from 3 political parties and SNP approval ratings dropping a little. For the last time....no c**t wants another one right now....no one wants to talk about another one right.....apart from you of course. You better hope that Brexit isn't the complete mess it's looking like. Will the likes of May, Davidson, Dugdale, Rennie and Jackie fucking Ballie be able to mount another, negative better together campaign with no reasons to vote for the UK ? I'm not convinced.
I'm just happy that I don't vote for any of those useless charlatans. They could not run a gang bang in a brothel.

Ha ha.Your "raging" response is fairly amusing after all the stuff about you "not giving a shit".Fairly rattled i would say and implying that you and many others didn't give a shit about the GE is fairly risible.I thought i was making a fairly mild post but it appears to have provoked you into a potty mouthed rage for some reason.I think and its only my opinion that assuming BREXIT is the panacea that revives Indy2 is pretty optimistic stuff.Independence is further away than autumn 2014 time to take the blinkers off.

[AUFC90]

8 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:

Ha ha.Your "raging" response is fairly amusing after all the stuff about you "not giving a shit".Fairly rattled i would say and implying that you and many others didn't give a shit about the GE is fairly risible.I thought i was making a fairly mild post but it appears to have provoked you into a potty mouthed rage for some reason.I think and its only my opinion that assuming BREXIT is the panacea that revives Indy2 is pretty optimistic stuff.Independence is further away than autumn 2014 time to take the blinkers off.

Why would I be raging ? I think it's time for you to take your troll blinkers off. For the last time, no one wants a referendum just now. I'm not assuming anything, what I do know is that people vote for change when they can feel it in their pocket. Always have and always will.

ETA..... the general election confirmed why a lot of indy supporters couldn't care less about it. 56 out of 59 seats....zero influence. 35 out of 59 seats.....zero influence. Now we have a government that we didnt vote for in cahoots with a bigoted party we cannot vote for negotiating a Brexit deal we did not want. That's the glorious union for you.

Edited June 28, 2017 by AUFC90

[Loondave1]

Why would I be raging ? I think it's time for you to take your troll blinkers off. For the last time, no one wants a referendum just now. I'm not assuming anything, what I do know is that people vote for change when they can feel it in their pocket. Always have and always will.

Ok.I won't argue with a man who feels it in his pocket.

[AUFC90]

Just now, Loondave1 said:

Ok.I won't argue with a man who feels it in his pocket.

Wow, you really do have nothing other than trolling do you ? What a sad pathetic individual.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm actually not going to disagree with a lot of that..although I can't see a soft Brexit happening. Back-bench Tories don't want a soft Brexit and May is powerless to do anything about it anyway.
Labour or Corbyn is not an enthusiastic supporter of the EU.
Totally agree with the "Don't rock the boat" approach. It worked in the past, but it's gone now as a tactic.
I've got a feeling the SNP will advance the indy cause through a YES movement and try an separate the political side in both parliaments for the "day jobs" for now.
Wouldn't go for Henry as he hasn't actually come out as an indy supporter. Maybe Angus Robertson or Alex Salmond to lead or play a huge part of building a YES movement? 
 

It needs a prominent non-SNP person to lead it.

[Brother Blades]

It needs a prominent non-SNP person to lead it.

Nigel Farrage isn't working at the moment.

[Lex]

19 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

Why would I be raging ? I think it's time for you to take your troll blinkers off. For the last time, no one wants a referendum just now. I'm not assuming anything, what I do know is that people vote for change when they can feel it in their pocket. Always have and always will.

ETA..... the general election confirmed why a lot of indy supporters couldn't care less about it. 56 out of 59 seats....zero influence. 35 out of 59 seats.....zero influence. Now we have a government that we didnt vote for in cahoots with a bigoted party we cannot vote for negotiating a Brexit deal we did not want. That's the glorious union for you.

If the SNP got 56 out of 59 seats a few weeks ago Corbyn would currently be Prime Minister.

' Zero influence '.

[AUFC90]

1 minute ago, Lex said:

If the SNP got 56 out of 59 seats a few weeks ago Corbyn would currently be Prime Minister.

' Zero influence '.

Ifs and buts. The majority of the time they do not have any influence even in hung parliaments. Ironically the group with the biggest influence ( Scot Tories) are going to do f**k all with it.

[Ira Gaines]

Lex

[John Lambies Doos]

If the SNP got 56 out of 59 seats a few weeks ago Corbyn would currently be Prime Minister.
' Zero influence '.

Massive difference, as the SNP would be pulling the strings for Scotland
Probably secure more investment, opening up of legacy files. Scottish news at 6, more devolved powers Inc right to call referendum.. etc etc.
Huge difference Lex

[Fide]

On 28/06/2017 at 14:59, Loondave1 said:

Ha ha.Your "raging" response is fairly amusing after all the stuff about you "not giving a shit".Fairly rattled i would say and implying that you and many others didn't give a shit about the GE is fairly risible.I thought i was making a fairly mild post but it appears to have provoked you into a potty mouthed rage for some reason.I think and its only my opinion that assuming BREXIT is the panacea that revives Indy2 is pretty optimistic stuff.Independence is further away than autumn 2014 time to take the blinkers off.

^^^ Furious, imo.

[McSpreader]

26 minutes ago, Fide said:

^^^ Furious, imo.

You don't have opinions , only prejudice, intolerance and hatred.

[McSpreader]

On 28/06/2017 at 12:45, NotThePars said:

The Tories set out to strengthen their majority. They lost it. They have less of a mandate to negotiate Brexit now than they did one month ago. It really is that simple.

Except that in the real world that doesn't count for much because they ARE currently , legally, negotiating Brexit !

[McSpreader]

On 28/06/2017 at 12:47, Bob Mahelp said:

Interesting post.

She may have a 'legal' mandate, but there is a huge case for suggesting that she has no moral mandate to push through the type of Brexit that she, many Tories, and her friends of the media would seem to prefer.

And on the same subject, let's be absolutely clear that the 'current partisan shit storm' was purely, utterly and completely of the Tories own making.

It was Cameron's fear of UKIP that drove us into having a completely unnecessary referendum. It's hard-liners in the Tory party and their friends in the right-wing media who have split the country and completely alienated almost 50% of voters. It's Tory arrogance and bluster that is making us few friends in Europe. It's Tory incompetence that is driving down the value of the Pound and slowing economic growth. And it was Tory greed, avarice and arrogance that put the country through another (completely unnecessary) General Election and which has saw Westminster as divided and as at odds as the country as a whole.

And now because of that, the country is controlled by a handful of stone-age, sectarian bigots who are being paid handfuls of gold to prop up a failed, incompetent Tory leadership.

Everything...Every. Single. Thing...the Tories have done over the last few years has turned into a world class clusterf*ck, and has dragged the UK into its worst constitutional crisis since the second world war.

Future generations will pay a heavy price for the arrogance and incompetence of today's Tory party. And yet, people still somehow find excuses for them.

As Oscar Wilde once famously said...'well. F*ck me'.

 

 

I disagree that it was an unnecessary referendum. The result paints that as  a wrong conclusion.

I agree that Cameron had no legal reason to call it , but a moral one.....definitely.

Some ( Many Millions of ) people had been calling for and waiting for a referendum on The EU membership for decades.

I agree that the DUP arrangement is a  very bad joke, although glad to see the Tories splashing some cash... setting a precedent they will struggle to  deal  with.