RussellAnderson Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Who cares about what the English media say about Scottish football? Do people sit in Portugal worrying about what the SPanish media think of their league? Or in Austria, fretting about the German papers and TV? The difference being the English media is readily circulated in Scotland as "UK media". If the Portuguese get slagged from Spain, it stays in Spain. Scotland gets slagged by England and it gets circulated through Scotland in UK wide media: the BBC, Sky, national newspapers, etc. It obviously has an effect on our decision-makers. Our leagues were renamed to mirror the English ones ffs!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, capt_oats said: On the whole Charlie Nick thing and his pals on Soccer Saturday laughing at the Scottish game; have the English media ever rated the game up here? Not being overly sensitive about it but my recollections of Saint and Greavsie when I was growing up were habitual references to "Jocko land" and digs about Scottish goalkeepers (fair enough tbh). Not that it bothered me, I rather enjoyed the show but surely the idea that the English media sneering at the Scottish game is anything new seems a bit misguided. The fact that their eyebrows were raised when Souness started signing the likes of Butcher, Woods et al was surely precisely because they didn't rate Scottish football and nothing has particularly changed in that regard. Of course a one horse race in the league isn't a good look. To argue otherwise is "everything-is-awesome"-type delusion and let's face it a two horse race isn't much better as far as a viable competition goes but the idea of using some sort of approval from the English media to validate the Scottish game is just demented. They never have rated the game up here and you're right, the comments aren't anything new. That doesn't make ok though, the attitudes that the press exude influences others and you can hear the same opinions echoed in fans comments pretty much all over the UK - even on here. Obviously Doncaster and Regan are useless fuckwits but their cause isn't helped when you are trying to sell a game and bring in revenue for a league that gets completely derided by everyone. The question is, why? Our game isn't the best but the leagues in Ireland and Wales aren't any better and you don't hear comments being made about them. Likewise, we are hardly the only country in the world to have a one or two horse race to the league, its generally the case in most European leagues that there are few teams who have much chance of winning their own leagues titles. Edited January 13, 2017 by Jambomo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLights Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said: Worst example of this is the naming the leagues premiership, championship bollox. The Scottish Premiership. Why not just call it the shitier than the english-one-dership? We will never be comparable to down south, so why try to emulate when we'll always fail. Differentiate, make value out of those differences. The fucking cretins running our game btw, bah. And why anyone would read anything Charlie Nicholas has 'written' when the c**t can hardly speak English is beyond me. To be fair it is the Premier League in England now so our top flight is different. However naming the three tiers below that after the English ones is just a joke and I long for an announcement that they'll go back to the First, Second and Third Division. Here is his awful reasoning... Quote "People are certainly familiar with what it represents," said the chief executive of the new league body. "When the names were changed in England we saw the Championship being elevated in terms of stature within the game. Our sincere hope is that will also be the case here. https://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/motherwell/233943-neil-doncaster-supporters-are-familiar-with-english-league-brands/ One problem I have is often on websites that list both the Scottish and English leagues I regularly click on the English Championship, League One or League Two when I meant to click Scottish links. I'm sure I can't be the only one who does that. To me that indicates a massive problem with the branding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The English in general seem to look down on all things Scottish, then there's a portion of Scottish people that possess the Scottish cringe and do the same. These people are the absolute worst. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The naming made a bit more sense in England, since the English Premiership is ran by a different body to the other leagues. However in Scotland it's all the same body (the SPFL) that run the 4 leagues. Double fail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said: Worst example of this is the naming the leagues premiership, championship bollox. The Scottish Premiership. Why not just call it the shitier than the english-one-dership? We will never be comparable to down south, so why try to emulate when we'll always fail. Differentiate, make value out of those differences. The fucking cretins running our game btw, bah. And why anyone would read anything Charlie Nicholas has 'written' when the c**t can hardly speak English is beyond me. Obviously the people running the game are total incompetents but this is a real cultural problem within Scottish football. The attitude that English football is the template for football in how to run it, market it etc etc is so ingrained within the hierarchies of Scottish football and the media it's barely believable. They are a far bigger country with far better footballing infrastructure and global appeal, only an absolute moron wouldn't realise that if we try and mirror that set up we will just look the the shambolic, amateurish version of the English leagues. We should have innovative people trying to maximise the strengths of the Scottish game (of which there are plenty btw) and marketing it as such. Play on the fact that the English premier league doesn't offer the 'real' experience of football anymore. If the police would wise up and lift the alcohol ban at games, even just low risk games then it's a real opportunity to market ourselves as the alternative to the EPL fannies. But no, we'll continue to get "we can't market Inverness v Kilmarnock, the English might laugh at us". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: The English in general seem to look down on all things Scottish, then there's a portion of Scottish people that possess the Scottish cringe and do the same. These people are the absolute worst. "The English in general" - what do you base this on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I lost my shit the day they renamed the bottom three leagues 'The Championship', 'League 1' and 'League 2. I was speechless, stunned, the lot. The clubs employ Doncaster, don't they? How they can stand back and think, "aye, that's a great idea" still absolutely bamboozles me to this day. Copying the league names of the English Football Leauge is nothing other than a complete and utter embarrassment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jambomo said: They never have rated the game up here and you're right, the comments aren't anything new. That doesn't make ok though, the attitudes that the press exude influences others and you can hear the same opinions echoed in fans comments pretty much all over the UK - even on here. Obviously Doncaster and Regan are useless fuckwits but their cause isn't helped when you are trying to sell a game and bring in revenue for a league that gets completely derided by everyone. The question is, why? Our game isn't the best but the leagues in Ireland and Wales aren't any better and you don't hear comments being made about them. Likewise, we are hardly the only country in the world to have a one or two horse race to the league, its generally the case in most European leagues that there are few teams who have much chance of winning their own leagues titles. This is obviously true to an extent and absolutely bang on the money when it comes to the influence on a UK-wide basis. That certainly has an effect as does the Ratnering of the league by those in charge of the Scottish game. That doesn't help either but is, of course, a different story. By the same token, it was only 6 months or so ago you had John Hartson insisting that Oliver Burke would be better served joining West Brom rather than going to the Bundesliga and of course there's the infamous "could Messi do it on a wet Wednesday night in Stoke" line so there's an element of derision aimed at other leagues through Europe, not just Scotland. I seem to remember in the 90s the English being particularly sneering towards Serie A "slow, boring" etc. I'm sure you could find plenty of examples of similar instances and attitudes. The difference I suppose is that when comments are being made about those leagues they're easily dismissed, absolutely no one takes them seriously and ultimately what John Hartson thinks of the Bundesliga makes no difference to anyone other than Hartson himself being shown up as an idiot. However up here we actively seem to take them on board and view these comments as evidence that "Yes, our league is indeed shite" and in the case of Nicholas and his ilk an agenda being pushed that has the "Old Firm" as the only thing that makes Scottish football credible again, something that wasn't helped by Regan, Doncaster et al effectively getting on that train in 2012. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 45 minutes ago, RussellAnderson said: It obviously has an effect on our decision-makers. Our leagues were renamed to mirror the English ones ffs!! They even made a c**t of that too. They have 2 competitions down there; the EPL and the EFL. All 4 leagues are under the same banner up here under the SPFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) What brought it home for me is the amount of time - even in general conversation with people, and also online - you have to clarify which Championship you're referring to. There was no such confusion with "the First Division" or "SFL1". EDIT: I don't know if it's the same as the Herald article, but there is a big piece with Nicholas in today's Scotsman where he says Rangers must gamble financially to challenge Celtic. Otherwise he doesn't expect the Ibrox club to win a league title in his lifetime. Incidentally the picture is him promoting a "Legends of Scottish & World Football" evening which he and Bertie Auld headline. Edited January 13, 2017 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellAnderson Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 minute ago, HibeeJibee said: What brought it home for me is the amount of time - even in general conversation with people, and also online - you have to clarify which Championship you're referring to. There was no such confusion with "the First Division" or "SFL1". "He's a Championship level player" "He's a First Division level player" I'm no marketer but surely changing your brand so that it completely matches your competitor is idiotic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'm also not in Marketing, but I'm going to assume the plan was to brand in the same way as a very successful competitor, in the hope that they can make a similar success with it? Something like that? Which, when written down by a complete and utter simpleton, may sound like the greatest idea of all time, however to the average punter with a brain in their head, it simply smacks of utter desperation and general shiteness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 While Nicholas is a moron and his remarks are indicative of the deep-rooted obsession our media and authorities have with how we're perceived in England, an obsession which is genuinely deeply damaging to our game as they focus their efforts on emulating England when that will never ever work, I'm pleased to see yet another mouthpiece demanding Rangers forget about silly little trivialities like 'budgets' and 'debt'. They might just do it and die again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 "The English in general" - what do you base this on? The English/British based world I've grown up in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: While Nicholas is a moron and his remarks are indicative of the deep-rooted obsession our media and authorities have with how we're perceived in England, an obsession which is genuinely deeply damaging to our game as they focus their efforts on emulating England when that will never ever work, I'm pleased to see yet another mouthpiece demanding Rangers forget about silly little trivialities like 'budgets' and 'debt'. They might just do it and die again. You only die once (Hebrews 9:27). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: The English/British based world I've grown up in. What does this mean? Do you have any evidence other that "the English in general look down on all things Scottish"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 What does this mean? Do you have any evidence other that "the English in general look down on all things Scottish"? I've not got any evidence, obviously. But after growing up in a British/English based world in regards to TV/Newspapers etc it's the way I feel. Nothing will change that either, that feeling massively hammered home after the events of the last few years too along with the feeling that there's a whole load of Scots that possess the Scottish cringe. I don't think this is an unfair or ridiculous view to have either and I'm sure a lot of other people will feel the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: I've not got any evidence, obviously. But after growing up in a British/English based world in regards to TV/Newspapers etc it's the way I feel. Nothing will change that either, that feeling massively hammered home after the events of the last few years too along with the feeling that there's a whole load of Scots that possess the Scottish cringe. I don't think this is an unfair or ridiculous view to have either and I'm sure a lot of other people will feel the same. It's a bizarre view, to be honest. When you go to England do you feel that people are looking down on you? I don't. I work with English people every day, I travel to England for work regularly and have never felt like that once. I have numerous family members who live in England, or English friends who have moved to Scotland, who have married and formed relationships with English people, had children with them and none of them, I assume, feel looked down on. To say "the English look down the Scots" and then say "I've not got any evidence" and "nothing will change that" suggests your view isn't one to be taken seriously. In fact, it's not far removed from the people discussed earlier in this thread, journalists obsessed with the idea that the English media need to take Scottish football seriously. The English don't care about Scottish football much and they don't 'look down' on Scotland either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: But after growing up in a British/English based world in regards to TV/Newspapers etc it's the way I feel. I think you've still got some growing up to do yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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