The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[1320Lichtie]

It's a bizarre view, to be honest.  When you go to England do you feel that people are looking down on you?  I don't.  I work with English people every day, I travel to England for work regularly and have never felt like that once.  I have numerous family members who live in England, or English friends who have moved to Scotland,  who have married and formed relationships with English people, had children with them and none of them, I assume, feel looked down on. 
To say "the English look down the Scots" and then say "I've not got any evidence" and "nothing will change that" suggests your view isn't one to be taken seriously.  In fact, it's not far removed from the people discussed earlier in this thread, journalists obsessed with the idea that the English media need to take Scottish football seriously.  The English don't care about Scottish football much and they don't 'look down' on Scotland either.

First paragraph. Everything is applicable to me too, apart from the fact I don't travel their for work.

Scotland is viewed with contempt IMO in the context of the Union and Britain. I feel like we are looked down on a bit in that regard, just like our football and the product we have up here is.

That viewpoint will not change and I really don't think it's an unfair one either. The opinion I have formed over the course of my life and things at this moment in time are as bad as ever for it.

Of course I obviously do not mean every single English person looks down on Scotland, that's not what I am saying.

I know my auntie for example found it absolute hell living in Somerset before the referendum, a lot of tongue biting went on to stop some full blown arguments. It's a pretty common theme all over newspapers and the media, papers and social too, IMO.

[Savage Henry]

20 minutes ago, Rugster said:

I think you've still got some growing up to do yet.

It's okay. His reactionary opinion speaks more than real facts ever could.

[1320Lichtie]

It's okay. His reactionary opinion speaks more than real facts ever could.

What real facts???

[drs]

 

3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

 

First paragraph. Everything is applicable to me too, apart from the fact I don't travel their for work.

Scotland is viewed with contempt IMO in the context of the Union and Britain. I feel like we are looked down on a bit in that regard, just like our football and the product we have up here is.

That viewpoint will not change and I really don't think it's an unfair one either. The opinion I have formed over the course of my life and things at this moment in time are as bad as ever for it.

Of course I obviously do not mean every single English person looks down on Scotland, that's not what I am saying.

I know my auntie for example found it absolute hell living in Somerset before the referendum, a lot of tongue biting went on to stop some full blown arguments. It's a pretty common theme all over newspapers and the media, papers and social too, IMO.
 

 

Are you 12?

[The Saintee]

52 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I've not got any evidence, obviously.

But after growing up in a British/English based world in regards to TV/Newspapers etc it's the way I feel. Nothing will change that either, that feeling massively hammered home after the events of the last few years too along with the feeling that there's a whole load of Scots that possess the Scottish cringe.

I don't think this is an unfair or ridiculous view to have either and I'm sure a lot of other people will feel the same.

 

[1320Lichtie]

State of the replies here.

Didn't take a genius to see how much Scotland was being criticised and undervalued by our friends down south before the big vote a couple of year back.

As for the evidence what would you like me to do? Pages and pages of posts with snidey comments about Scotland from English people/media???

I'll pass.

[HibeeJibee]

Get this stuff off to GN.

[DA Baracus]

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Obviously the people running the game are total incompetents but this is a real cultural problem within Scottish football.

The attitude that English football is the template for football in how to run it, market it etc etc is so ingrained within the hierarchies of Scottish football and the media it's barely believable.  They are a far bigger country with far better footballing infrastructure and global appeal, only an absolute moron wouldn't realise that if we try and mirror that set up we will just look the the shambolic, amateurish version of the English leagues.

We should have innovative people trying to maximise the strengths of the Scottish game (of which there are plenty btw) and marketing it as such.  Play on the fact that the English premier league doesn't offer the 'real' experience of football anymore.  If the police would wise up and lift the alcohol ban at games, even just low risk games then it's a real opportunity to market ourselves as the alternative to the EPL fannies.

But no, we'll continue to get "we can't market Inverness v Kilmarnock, the English might laugh at us".

They sell alcohol English games.

[ICTChris]

51 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

First paragraph. Everything is applicable to me too, apart from the fact I don't travel their for work.

Scotland is viewed with contempt IMO in the context of the Union and Britain. I feel like we are looked down on a bit in that regard, just like our football and the product we have up here is.

That viewpoint will not change and I really don't think it's an unfair one either. The opinion I have formed over the course of my life and things at this moment in time are as bad as ever for it.

Of course I obviously do not mean every single English person looks down on Scotland, that's not what I am saying.

I know my auntie for example found it absolute hell living in Somerset before the referendum, a lot of tongue biting went on to stop some full blown arguments. It's a pretty common theme all over newspapers and the media, papers and social too, IMO.
 

 

Scotland is treated with "contempt" and also looked down on "a bit"?  Contempt = a bit.

"Our product we have up here" - what does that mean?  Scottish products are looked down on in England?  Which products?

I don't want to get into arguments about the Union and Britain because they are best left in the post-Mad Max wasteland of the Politics forum but while wanting Scottish independence is a perfectly normal viewpoint I don't think saying that Scotland is treated with contempt is a position that holds up.  

Again, you say your viewpoint will not change.  Never?  You'll literally never change your viewpoint about the English, in general, ever, ever, ever?  Opinions formed by normal thought and logic have the ability to change.  

I know you aren't saying that every single English person looks down on Scotland, you said that the English in general do, an equally odd and unverifiable comment.

I'm sorry your auntie in Somerset had to bite her tongue to stop full blown arguments.  Arguing about politics is surprisingly widespread (try the entire planet) and isn't confined to Scotland and England and isn't indicative of some sort of general theme for the entire population of England.

Your last sentence is basically what explains your thoughts - "It's a pretty common theme all over newspapers and the media, papers and social too, IMO."

Here is how this works - what you read is selective, you tend to read things that you agree with, you follow people on social media that you agree with, you pay attention when people you agree with come on.  You also form a picture selectively about people you disagree with and you have formed a picture of what England, in general, is like through reading newspaper articles and columns, listening to radio call shows and posts on social media.  You see it all the time - people sharing the DISGRACEFUL posts and images of their opponents "LOOK AT WHAT THIS TORY/REMAINER/YOON/NAT/LEAVER/BLAIRITE SAID POSTED".  It's given Nigel Farage and Katie Hopkins a good living.  It isn't the way to form an opinion on anything, least of all a nation of millions of people.

Quote

As for the evidence what would you like me to do? Pages and pages of posts with snidey comments about Scotland from English people/media??? 

I'll pass.

A list of pages and pages of things you don't agree with isn't evidence that England, in general, looks down on Scotland.  It's evidence that people say things you don't agree with or like.

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by ICTChris

[1320Lichtie]

Good post, don't agree with much of it however and it's best not to take this thread too much off topic.

You obviously think differently from me but I think the way some of the English look at our football and the way some Scots do such as Nicholas, is very similar to the way some of these same people view other aspects of our country too.

[Dons_1988]

They sell alcohol English games.

I'm aware of that. I wasn't suggesting selling alcohol here would be a differentiator for us. More just an added string to our bow.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

There's certainly an element of Scotophobia in some of the UK media and in British popular culture, however, this is the case with many other identities too (Ireland, France, Germany, etc.) and usually to a greater extent. The Scots also have a bad track record of sectarianism against Ireland and rarely raise a peep when it comes to some idiot tabloid or comedian slagging off another country that isn't us. British culture is pretty chauvinistic as a hangover from imperialism and sometimes Scots suffer collateral damage from that, but it's complicated since we're implicated in it too. 

I find English people brilliant on the whole, though, not that it's proper evidence. They can be a bit patronising about aspects of Scotland but I've experienced the same from French, Americans, and Germans too. It's a big country thing.

Charlie Nicholas is a brain donor, back to complaining about journalism.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Malcolm Malcolm

[Greenlantern]

Some hate the English. I don't. They're just w@nkers. We on the other hand are colonised by w@nkers.

It's all opinions and attitudes. There is just as much wrong with the English game, as the Scottish game. Clubs in massive debt, renting stadia, corruption, scandal etc. They just have the coverage to promote it successfully.

I think a lot of negativity is partially due to our current national standings, and our inability to perform or qualify on a Global or European stage.

However, at club level, I think we punch well above our weight at times.
The 'product' or 'scenes' at Hampden Park in May with Hibs and Rangers (rightly or wrongly) were fantastic. That was a proper ding dong cup tie! Far superior to any over-hyped chess game England had to offer. And for a fleeting moment, had everyone's attention north and south of the border.
Swiftly followed by sensational reports of appalling scenes of disorder, pitch invasions, confrontation and contemptible behaviour. Fair enough, but what about the game of football?

[7-2]

I can understand being concerned about the English opinion from a sponsorship or player recruitment viewpoint but not to the extent that it appears to be the driving force for all we do. Swello's UEFA Report thread shows how wrong this approach is.

As an inhabitant of Englandshire for a few years now I've found that the vast majority of the locals think fondly of Scotland, Wales and Ireland. There is a bit of patronising at times but I've rarely experienced any serious anti-Jockness. They tend to look outwards and generally see their rivals as the bigger countries in most things, the main sporting exception being New Zealand at rugby. I think they look on us a bit like a younger brother which is an attitude we return as we seem to always look to them for their approval.

Anyway, even if the English did look down on us as because we're smaller I'd say it was just human nature. Look how the bigots look down on everyone else because they're smaller or the bigger diddies snear at Saints, Hamilton and County because our supports are smaller. How about us in general decrying the Welsh and Irish leagues because they're smaller. Aren't we just doing to them what the English do to us?

The bottom line is, apart from a number of useless suits, who really cares? Yes, the joint media means we can't escape the put down stuff but it really says more about them than us.

[Miguel Sanchez]

6 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

They sell alcohol English games.

They sell it here too by the look of this post.

[Monkey Tennis]

17 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I've not got any evidence, obviously.

But after growing up in a British/English based world in regards to TV/Newspapers etc it's the way I feel. Nothing will change that either, that feeling massively hammered home after the events of the last few years too along with the feeling that there's a whole load of Scots that possess the Scottish cringe.

I read this and cringed.  I'm also Scottish.

Is that the type of thing you're getting at?

[Monkey Tennis]

On the Charlie Nicholas thing, if I ever stumblingly found myself sharing a view with him on anything, I'd urgently need to re-assess.

He's as thick as he is ignorant and there's not a person on the planet who should ever pay him the slightest attention.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

What qualifies Nicholas as some sort of expert on the game up here anyway? He played here as a youngster, fucked off down south to play for Arsenal's reserves for a few seasons and came back up here to retire. The guy can barely string a coherent sentence together for f**k's sakes. 

 

[williemillersmoustache]

'If you Toral 8 this, then your children will be next'. 
 
 

Now now, it's a new year, let's all come together and show some Toral8***.

[Gianfranco]

Don't let stranger dangers anywhere near the children.