The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[Monkey Tennis]

On 01/05/2018 at 06:50, Green Day said:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16191826.Exclusive__Call_for_ban_on_taxpayer_funding_in_Scottish_football_in_bid_to_end__quot_culture_of_cowardice_quot__on_sectarianism/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor

Pish, poorly researched and lazy article from The Herald, basically trying to paint Hibs and Hearts with the same sectarian shite as the ugly sisters.

Using the tried and tested "it's a Scotland wide problem" when we all know which clubs fans are 99% culpable.

No wonder people don't take Nil by Mouth seriously when they are part of this nonsense.

This infuriates me.

Sectarianism is a wholly OF issue (as opposed to a holy one), yet we get this thoroughly dishonest narrative that it blights everyone.

No surprise to see such pish emanating from a Glasgow paper.

[craigkillie]

Sectarianism is certainly predominantly an Old Firm issue, but it would be nonsense to suggest that there are not fans of the Edinburgh clubs (particularly Hearts) who indulge in similar behaviour.

[JamesM82]

On 01/05/2018 at 07:56, Bairnardo said:

On 01/05/2018 at 06:50, Green Day said:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16191826.Exclusive__Call_for_ban_on_taxpayer_funding_in_Scottish_football_in_bid_to_end__quot_culture_of_cowardice_quot__on_sectarianism/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor
Pish, poorly researched and lazy article from The Herald, basically trying to paint Hibs and Hearts with the same sectarian shite as the ugly sisters.
Using the tried and tested "it's a Scotland wide problem" when we all know which clubs fans are 99% culpable.
No wonder people don't take Nil by Mouth seriously when they are part of this nonsense.

Lol, why have they shoehorned Hearts and Hibs into that article anyway? Totally pointless and presumably only to keep the ugly sisters happy.

1. They asked Hibs and Hearts for comment because they regularly use Oriam, which was publicly funded. I guess they didn't bother to respond because all it is at the moment is NbM spouting off.

2. If the parliament passes anti-sectarian legislation of some sort, they can't just target it against  Celtic or Rangers, it has to apply to everyone in Scotland.

Edited May 2, 2018 by JamesM82

[Dons_1988]

This infuriates me.
Sectarianism is a wholly OF issue (as opposed to a holy one), yet we get this thoroughly dishonest narrative that it blights everyone.
No surprise to see such pish emanating from a Glasgow paper.

The only sectarianism I’ve seen outside of the old firm is usually pissed up folk on away days trying to wind up one or the other of the OF. Just as likely to scream f**k the pope as they are f**k the queen depending on who they’re playing.

Shameful behaviour yes but they’re not going to practice violence on anyone because of their faith.

[The_Judge]

50 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Sectarianism is certainly predominantly an Old Firm issue, but it would be nonsense to suggest that there are not fans of the Edinburgh clubs (particularly Hearts) who indulge in similar behaviour.

I've met loads of religiously intolerant people that don't even follow football although they're happy to align themselves to a club to try to justify it.  The notion that no Celtic or Rangers would transform them into normal, tolerant citizens is something I'd have to dismiss out of hand.

[7-2]

Two clubs built on sectarianism and using it as a business model for fan bases of tens of thousands that indulge in it every week in public and online = pockets of attention seeking shit stirrers. Yep, that seems about right.  Sweep sweep.

[nsr]

34 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

If the parliament passes anti-sectarian legislation of some sort, they can't just target it against  Celtic or Rangers, it has to apply to everyone in Scotland.

Agreed, but as they have far and away the worst problems, it would make sense to make an example out of them to instruct the rest.

[Swello]

59 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Sectarianism is certainly predominantly an Old Firm issue, but it would be nonsense to suggest that there are not fans of the Edinburgh clubs (particularly Hearts) who indulge in similar behaviour.

This is completely true - but mentioning Hibs and Hearts in this context without qualification fails the proportionality test IMO as it gives the (wildly) false impression that Hearts and Hibs have an equivalent problem to Rangers and Celtic. Given that Rangers and Celtic have their own training facilities, it read to me like Hearts and Hibs were shoehorned in so that the Oriam example could be used (as is the main example of Govt funding but inconveniently has no links to the OF)

I think MORE govt funding for facilities like the Oriam should be happening throughout the country and I'm also broadly in favour of Strict(er) Liability - but I don't think conflating the two things is helpful to anyone. 

Also - I assume Nil by Mouth don't count their own taxpayer funding when referring to "Scottish Football"

[ICTChris]

My brother-in-law is a Hearts season ticket holder and he always said that the staunch fleg wavers only showed up against Celtic and Hibs - either that or they only brought out the staunchness in those games.  I've been to loads of games at Easter Road and Tynecastle over the years and have never seen anything sectarian.  Contrast that to visits to the Old Firm where the party songs are brought out for a game against a load of Highland Presbyterians like us  

[Dons_1988]

My brother-in-law is a Hearts season ticket holder and he always said that the staunch fleg wavers only showed up against Celtic and Hibs - either that or they only brought out the staunchness in those games.  I've been to loads of games at Easter Road and Tynecastle over the years and have never seen anything sectarian.  Contrast that to visits to the Old Firm where the party songs are brought out for a game against a load of Highland Presbyterians like us  

Before the most recent game at tynecastle I ended up drinking with a mate in a bar near the ground (can’t remember it’s exact name now) that was hearts fans.

There were a couple of ‘staunch’ songs being belted out on the jukebox. Nothing particularly offensive but staunch nonetheless.

[Green Day]

3 hours ago, Swello said:

This is completely true - but mentioning Hibs and Hearts in this context without qualification fails the proportionality test IMO as it gives the (wildly) false impression that Hearts and Hibs have an equivalent problem to Rangers and Celtic. Given that Rangers and Celtic have their own training facilities, it read to me like Hearts and Hibs were shoehorned in so that the Oriam example could be used (as is the main example of Govt funding but inconveniently has no links to the OF)

I think MORE govt funding for facilities like the Oriam should be happening throughout the country and I'm also broadly in favour of Strict(er) Liability - but I don't think conflating the two things is helpful to anyone. 

Also - I assume Nil by Mouth don't count their own taxpayer funding when referring to "Scottish Football"

Indeed, agreed on all - but the bold bit proves how pish poorly researched the article actually is - Hibs own a training facility at East Mains, however the hibs 20s do use Oriam for development league games, as have many other teams when playing Hibs and Hearts 20s.

Hearts do rent a bit of Oriam for their training centre,  but the presumption of the article is (in part) that the government funded Hibs and Hearts training facilities - like I said, this is pish, and Hearts trained at Riccarton before Oriam was built.

[Green Day]

4 hours ago, JamesM82 said:

1. They asked Hibs and Hearts for comment because they regularly use Oriam, which was publicly funded. I guess they didn't bother to respond because all it is at the moment is NbM spouting off.

2. If the parliament passes anti-sectarian legislation of some sort, they can't just target it against  Celtic or Rangers, it has to apply to everyone in Scotland.

The songs a lot (and lets not kid ourselves its a minority) of the away support will belt out at the last game of the season at ER are already illegal, but the police will do nothing.

If Police Scotland spent even 50% of the resources on this that they did chasing people for exuberance and ripping up Hampden turf after our cup win, the problem would disappear from grounds.

ps. I do understand sectarianism exists outside Celtic and Rangers and in society - but, FFS we as football fans know that when it comes to football, its probably 90%+ those clubs.

[Guest Moomintroll]

All the Police, along with the TSOs, will be caring about for the next month or so is that your local corner shop must not sell alcohol at 45p per unit. Priorities People.

[7-2]

4 hours ago, JamesM82 said:

2. If the parliament passes anti-sectarian legislation of some sort, they can't just target it against  Celtic or Rangers, it has to apply to everyone in Scotland.

Of course they should target the bigot brothers and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. However anti-sectarianism legislation already exists yet it is basically ignored. If by some amazing miracle they did decide to use it and have a purge then only two clubs would really be affected. But they won't as they are too scared to do anything about it.

[Guest Moomintroll]

Of course they should target the bigot brothers and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. However anti-sectarianism legislation already exists yet it is basically ignored. If by some amazing miracle they did decide to use it and have a purge then only two clubs would really be affected. But they won't as they are too scared to do anything about it.

Hmmm with reference to point 2, I have spent many a Saturday calling A*r, Partick, Hamilton, Pars, Maureens, Well, Uncle Roys, fans O**nge barstewards. Except, now that I think about it, I dont, & I do not use the grey and green equivalent word either. So in the words of the great Mr Sanderson, whats your point caller. (Not you 7-2, i am still shamefaced reading my earlier post).

[tree house tam]

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

My brother-in-law is a Hearts season ticket holder and he always said that the staunch fleg wavers only showed up against Celtic and Hibs - either that or they only brought out the staunchness in those games.  I've been to loads of games at Easter Road and Tynecastle over the years and have never seen anything sectarian.  Contrast that to visits to the Old Firm where the party songs are brought out for a game against a load of Highland Presbyterians like us  

I know a guy who lives in Perth but is originally from down south, he's a right racist bigoted c**t and due to ties with the far right he met a few Hearts fans and now goes to almost every game. Folk from Perth will probably know who I'm on about.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

32 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

I know a guy who lives in Perth but is originally from down south, he's a right racist bigoted c**t and due to ties with the far right he met a few Hearts fans and now goes to almost every game. Folk from Perth will probably know who I'm on about.

Don't know that guy off the top of my head, but I was at a Saints v ICT game a few years back and a couple of rows up from me in the Ormond stand was a chap displaying a fine specimen of the Skrewdriver long sleeve t-shirt. 

He wasn't even a skinhead, looked fairly hippy-like. I was michtily surprised, I tell thee.

[coprolite]

I think that the gist of the campaign is fair enough. They are saying that the football authorities should do more, not asking for new legislation or anything. 

Sure the embra clubs are not as bad, but it's whataboutery to suggest there is no issue there, although Stokes leaving helped.

The legislation is awful. "perceived association to a religious group" is horrific lawmaking. I'm still not convinced that arseholery should be criminal.

I think that a proportionate effort from the football authorities reduces the need for the shite, OTT and hard to enforce legislation.

Being banned from a sporting venue seems a fairer and more constructive punishment for causing  offence than jail.

 

 

[HaikuHibee]

7 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Sectarianism is certainly predominantly an Old Firm issue, but it would be nonsense to suggest that there are not fans of the Edinburgh clubs (particularly Hearts) who indulge in similar behaviour.

Then mention rugby, or some fucking field hockey? Racists watch that too.

Edited May 2, 2018 by HaikuHibee

[Darren]

6 hours ago, ICTChris said:

My brother-in-law is a Hearts season ticket holder and he always said that the staunch fleg wavers only showed up against Celtic and Hibs - either that or they only brought out the staunchness in those games. 

The young team were at it with some song about Don Cowie hating the IRA at Fir Park in the Scottish Cup quarter-final against Motherwell. A sizeable minority of Hearts fans are complete cretins.