The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[Dons_1988]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

It's not quite the same thing. Women's football happens in England and is of interest to the local population.

Of course media attention drives interest, but to what end would there be media attention on Scottish football in England? What does the local population do with that?

There's only so much space, and England is a more multi-sport envronment than Scotland as well. They've got the Premier League, well-supported lower league, cricket, rugby, etc to cover. It's a very hard sell to say that their audience is being served in any way by shoe-horning in coverage of something that just isn't relevant to them.

We have our own coverage. It may be shite, but that's a different issue.

The plus side to all this is that most of my English mates have absolutely no idea Hearts have been relegated twice in the last decade. Didn't register at all. Which is nice. Most folk reckon we're still owned by that Latvian/Russian/foreign guy.

It is different, and I’m not suggesting Scottish football receive the same treatment. I’m merely highlighting that it’s within the BBC’s gift to give Scottish football an increased level of coverage either at a uk level or regionally, and it would have an impact if it did. 

It’s not unreasonable to suggest that the current output is pretty risible from a national broadcaster. The regional output is a reflection of the funding from the overall bbc. As the BBC’s national coverage becomes less relevant anyway, it could reinvent itself at least in part as a champion of regional coverage - but it won’t. 

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It is different, and I’m not suggesting Scottish football receive the same treatment. I’m merely highlighting that it’s within the BBC’s gift to give Scottish football an increased level of coverage either at a uk level or regionally, and it would have an impact if it did. 

It’s not unreasonable to suggest that the current output is pretty risible from a national broadcaster. The regional output is a reflection of the funding from the overall bbc. As the BBC’s national coverage becomes less relevant anyway, it could reinvent itself at least in part as a champion of regional coverage - but it won’t. 

I think there's a circular aspect that is related to the tv coverage our own league provides.

All your average English punter ever sees of our league is Livi v Celtic, Killie v Rangers, Hibs v Celtic, Motherwell v Rangers...

A lot of these games are attack against defence with an inevitable outcome. And, given that nothing else is ever televised, people assume that's all there is. I've taken mates to Tynecastle who have been genuinely surprised how professional and high-quality the whole thing is, as they tend to think it's essentially amateur stuff.

That's basically the impression our league gives off, so there's no demand for any coverage. It starts with our clubs.

Edited April 22 by VincentGuerin

[Sergeant Wilson]

There's an element on this forum who will argue that black is white when English football is mentioned. The interest in Scotland has existed as long as I remember and I expect long before that. Probably right back to when Scots first started signing for English clubs. It's very easy to understand given the size of the countries, that the standard is generally better.

We can't dictate what people are interested in. 

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think there's a circular aspect that is related to the tv coverage our own league provides.

All your average English punter ever sees of our league is Livi v Celtic, Killie v Rangers, Hibs v Celtic, Motherwell v Rangers...

A lot of these games are attack against defence with an inevitable outcome. And, given that nothing else is ever televised, people assume that's all there is. I've taken mates to Tynecastle who have been genuinely surprised howe professional and high-quality the whole thing is, as they tend to think it's essentially amateur stuff.

That's basically the impression our league gives off, so there's no demand for any coverage. It starts with our clubs.

You won’t have any argument from me there and I’ve probably made hundreds of posts on the forum to that end. Our clubs are shitebags who are happy to take the quick media win from the OF. 

[stu2910]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

I think there's a circular aspect that is related to the tv coverage our own league provides.

All your average English punter ever sees of our league is Livi v Celtic, Killie v Rangers, Hibs v Celtic, Motherwell v Rangers...

A lot of these games are attack against defence with an inevitable outcome. And, given that nothing else is ever televised, people assume that's all there is. I've taken mates to Tynecastle who have been genuinely surprised howe professional and high-quality the whole thing is, as they tend to think it's essentially amateur stuff.

That's basically the impression our league gives off, so there's no demand for any coverage. It starts with our clubs.

This is kind of the point I was trying to make before.  England doesn't care about Scottish football but they're never going to care if they're not able to see it, unless our league suddenly becomes like Saudi Arabia which I can't see happening somehow.

The quality might not be amazing at the moment, but one of the most consistently interesting aspects of Scottish football is the Championship.  A division that until recently was ignored completely and even now is broadcast exclusively in Scotland every other week or so.  Is it really of lower quality and interest than a National League game in England that's on Sky/BT every week?

[AndyM]

6 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

It's not quite the same thing. Women's football happens in England and is of interest to the local population.

Of course media attention drives interest, but to what end would there be media attention on Scottish football in England? What does the local population do with that?

There's only so much space, and England is a more multi-sport envronment than Scotland as well. They've got the Premier League, well-supported lower league, cricket, rugby, etc to cover. It's a very hard sell to say that their audience is being served in any way by shoe-horning in coverage of something that just isn't relevant to them.

We have our own coverage. It may be shite, but that's a different issue.

The plus side to all this is that most of my English mates have absolutely no idea Hearts have been relegated twice in the last decade. Didn't register at all. Which is nice. Most folk reckon we're still owned by that Latvian/Russian/foreign guy.

Agree. There's no interest south of the border in our football. The Weegies get very occasional reference but it's viewed in the same way that scientists watching chimps throw their own dung around would do. Try explaining the sectarianism background to that game and you get totally blank stares.

They get bigger crowds at their Rugby games than we get at matches involving any side that isn't the weegies, Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts. Non league football is really well supported and Cricket, whether we like it or not,  is also huge. 

If I'd stayed down there I'd have ended up completely losing touch with Scottish Football and probably with a Season Ticket at Barnet.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, stu2910 said:

This is kind of the point I was trying to make before.  England doesn't care about Scottish football but they're never going to care if they're not able to see it, unless our league suddenly becomes like Saudi Arabia which I can't see happening somehow.

The quality might not be amazing at the moment, but one of the most consistently interesting aspects of Scottish football is the Championship.  A division that until recently was ignored completely and even now is broadcast exclusively in Scotland every other week or so.  Is it really of lower quality and interest than a National League game in England that's on Sky/BT every week?

That doesn't really matter. If you live in Stockport, you'll be interested in the National League as some of the clubs will be local to you, you'll have likes and dislikes, some of your mates will support the clubs involved.

What's that person's motivation for watching Partick Thistle against Ayr? Even if it is exciting. English football has its own excitement every season.

Could you tell me how exciting the Northern Irish or Welsh leagues are this year? I've got no idea. It's not relevant to me at all.

There will never be interest in our game in England beyond football geeks and people with links to Scotland. And that's fine.

[Jacksgranda]

9 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

This is kind of the point I was trying to make before.  England doesn't care about Scottish football but they're never going to care if they're not able to see it, unless our league suddenly becomes like Saudi Arabia which I can't see happening somehow.

The quality might not be amazing at the moment, but one of the most consistently interesting aspects of Scottish football is the Championship.  A division that until recently was ignored completely and even now is broadcast exclusively in Scotland every other week or so.  Is it really of lower quality and interest than a National League game in England that's on Sky/BT every week?

I've watched a good few Championship games + about three in the cup when there hasn't been an Irish League game broadcast, and they've all been very enjoyable.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, stu2910 said:

This is kind of the point I was trying to make before.  England doesn't care about Scottish football but they're never going to care if they're not able to see it, unless our league suddenly becomes like Saudi Arabia which I can't see happening somehow.

The quality might not be amazing at the moment, but one of the most consistently interesting aspects of Scottish football is the Championship.  A division that until recently was ignored completely and even now is broadcast exclusively in Scotland every other week or so.  Is it really of lower quality and interest than a National League game in England that's on Sky/BT every week?

A lot of content on subscription telly is filler. Revenue also comes from adverts, there needs to be a programme on to carry adverts. Hence the reason there's Australian football in the morning, American soccer late at night. Where do you think Championship games might end up on the schedule? The same people complaining about lack of coverage would be howling about games being played on Thursday night's etc.

There's also the cost. The SPFL don't recognise the tv coverage as a promotional tool to generate interest, they see it simply as a revenue source.

[scottsdad]

24 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I've taken mates to Tynecastle who have been genuinely surprised how professional and high-quality the whole thing is, as they tend to think it's essentially amateur stuff.

Jeez, what did they do to you to deserve that punishment?

[stu2910]

20 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

That doesn't really matter. If you live in Stockport, you'll be interested in the National League as some of the clubs will be local to you, you'll have likes and dislikes, some of your mates will support the clubs involved.

What's that person's motivation for watching Partick Thistle against Ayr? Even if it is exciting. English football has its own excitement every season.

Could you tell me how exciting the Northern Irish or Welsh leagues are this year? I've got no idea. It's not relevant to me at all.

There will never be interest in our game in England beyond football geeks and people with links to Scotland. And that's fine.

I'm not disputing that someone living in Stockport will be interested in Stockport, that's not the point.  In the last few posts you've said that people in Scotland will be interested in Stockport v Tranmere but then go on to question why someone in England would watch Partick v Ayr.  Other than, oh I don't know, massively increased media attention, what does the English game have that's so interesting?  To get back to the original point, why is this considered interesting enough to show across the board while the Scottish game isn't?  You're not wrong that people outside of Scotland don't care, but the coverage has to come first.  I doubt you care about watching table tennis but how would you if you never see it.

Edited April 22 by stu2910

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, stu2910 said:

I'm not disputing that someone living in Stockport will be interested in Stockport, that's not the point.  In the last few posts you've said that people in Scotland will be interested in Stockport v Tranmere but then go on to question why someone in England would watch Partick v Ayr.  Other than, oh I don't know, massively increased media attention, what does the English game have that's so interesting?

You could ask the same question about why your average Austrian fan is more interested in German football than your average German fan is in Austrian football.

It's higher profile (circular, I know, but that's just how it is), it has better media coverage as it has a bigger population and therefore a bigger market, and it's a football set-up that contains some of the best teams in the world. That all filters down.

All these things added together make something more appealing. Why do more Scottish people take an interest in La Liga than the Portuguese league?

[Lex]

14 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

I'm not disputing that someone living in Stockport will be interested in Stockport, that's not the point.  In the last few posts you've said that people in Scotland will be interested in Stockport v Tranmere but then go on to question why someone in England would watch Partick v Ayr.  Other than, oh I don't know, massively increased media attention, what does the English game have that's so interesting?  To get back to the original point, why is this considered interesting enough to show across the board while the Scottish game isn't?  You're not wrong that people outside of Scotland don't care, but the coverage has to come first.  I doubt you care about watching table tennis but how would you if you never see it.

Taking that a step further, would you watch a Northern Irish Football League Premiership game on the TV? There is a decent title race going on there between Larne and Linfield just now, but I still wouldn't want to watch. 

[Jacksgranda]

4 minutes ago, Lex said:

Taking that a step further, would you watch a Northern Irish Football League Premiership game on the TV? There is a decent title race going on there between Larne and Linfield just now, but I still wouldn't want to watch. 

You don't know what you're missing. Been some fantastic entertainment this season.

[stu2910]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

You could ask the same question about why your average Austrian fan is more interested in German football than your average German fan is in Austrian football.

It's higher profile (circular, I know, but that's just how it is), it has better media coverage as it has a bigger population and therefore a bigger market, and it's a football set-up that contains some of the best teams in the world. That all filters down.

All these things added together make something more appealing. Why do more Scottish people take an interest in La Liga than the Portuguese league?

That's all fair.  I think to try to bring this to an end will we try to agree on something:

Scottish football is marketed terribly, particularly with the focus on 2 clubs, but is also screwed over by being one of only 3 national football associations who's national broadcaster is also the national broadcaster for a much bigger league.

[Alert Mongoose]

43 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

That doesn't really matter. If you live in Stockport, you'll be interested in the National League as some of the clubs will be local to you, you'll have likes and dislikes, some of your mates will support the clubs involved.

What's that person's motivation for watching Partick Thistle against Ayr? Even if it is exciting. English football has its own excitement every season.

Could you tell me how exciting the Northern Irish or Welsh leagues are this year? I've got no idea. It's not relevant to me at all.

There will never be interest in our game in England beyond football geeks and people with links to Scotland. And that's fine.

To take this further then, can you explain why so many Scottish people watch English games when they should have 'no relevance to them'?

[Lex]

7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

You don't know what you're missing. Been some fantastic entertainment this season.

The title decider is tonight! Point is you'd be lucky if more than 1% of Scottish football fans knew this, you are that 1% 

I wonder if there is a Northern Ireland football forum where they bemoan the amount of coverage their game gets nationally on the BBC.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Lex said:

The title decider is tonight! Point is you'd be lucky if more than 1% of Scottish football fans knew this, you are that 1% 

I wonder if there is a Northern Ireland football forum where they bemoan the amount of coverage their game gets nationally on the BBC.

Not necessarily, if Larne win, or it's a draw, Larne retain the title, even Linfield are unlikely to overturn a 17 goal defecit in the event of a draw. However, if Linfield win it goes to the last game, with Linfield needing a win and hoping Coleraine do them a favour at Inver Park, by taking points off Larne. My (metaphorical) money's on Larne.

[TheScarf]

8 minutes ago, Lex said:

The title decider is tonight! Point is you'd be lucky if more than 1% of Scottish football fans knew this, you are that 1% 

I wonder if there is a Northern Ireland football forum where they bemoan the amount of coverage their game gets nationally on the BBC.

There is, it's called Cheddar Cheese & Pineapple.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

35 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

I'm not disputing that someone living in Stockport will be interested in Stockport, that's not the point.  In the last few posts you've said that people in Scotland will be interested in Stockport v Tranmere but then go on to question why someone in England would watch Partick v Ayr.  Other than, oh I don't know, massively increased media attention, what does the English game have that's so interesting?  To get back to the original point, why is this considered interesting enough to show across the board while the Scottish game isn't?  You're not wrong that people outside of Scotland don't care, but the coverage has to come first.  I doubt you care about watching table tennis but how would you if you never see it.

League 1 and 2 aren't on that much, although Wrexham have attracted a bit of interest.

Stockport is a great story, championship level to non-league and part time before going back up the divisions again, Tranmere, not dissimilar. I'm far more interested in English lower division football, more so since 2012 when I decided I would never have anything concerning Rangers and Celtic on my telly.

(I watch the NI games as well, mainly because I've been to a couple. South of the border, I don't see as much, but watch for Bohemians results.