The_Kincardine Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Each club should adhere to the rules and regulations of whichever association they adhere to and those associations should adhere to the rules and regulations of whichever association they adhere to. These clubs should also adhere to the law of their land.......yes. And that moves the conversation on how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Is that you saying that I'm right. How can I possibly have an opinion? You've said nothing that can be measured. Can you assess my view? Is this acceptable to you? Would this be a standard you'd want your club to adopt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Look, the clubs will never vote in favor of being accountable for their fans again. If they do, they will lose money and face. The police cannot be held responsible for what happens within sports, they can only react to unlawful behaviour. Therefore the only people who will ever change the situation in sport/life is us. I am more optimistic than you. I think clubs should be called to account - it's the only way left for fans to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggy-1872 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 If this facial recognition nonsense does happen, then i hope all the offended brigade are happy, absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Jag Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Mostly every clubs' fans, directed primarily at their rivals. Every club? Some examples please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 You didn't mentioned sectarian singing. You said, "they should be eradicating the pish without laws, rules or liability." You, helpfully, didn't say what 'the pish' was. Helpfully I have used the Offensive Behaviour Act as the litmus test and suggested that clubs should be strictly liable for their fans' behaviour under it as decided by the police. Have you the slightest issue with this? Thread title was the clue for me. Those clubs in a position of influence in our game and those who are bedevilled with the issue at hand should take the lead(that's you c***s btw). Stop forcing the wider game to force you into sorting out. And just sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I've not bothered reading this entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said, but what's the difference between sectarianism and every other 'ism'? 30 years ago or whatever racism was commonplace in football. It's disgusting, old fashioned and thankfully has been pretty much eradicated on the terracing. If the SFA/SPFL etc had taken the same attitude to it as they do to sectarianism then we would still have an issue up here. In fact we'd be blaming the non racists for having the cheek to be offended. Like I said, apologies if it's already been mentioned, but everytime I hear the sectarianism debate it makes me think of that analogy. Extreme? Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrots and Peas Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 The SPFL secretly like sectarian songs I think. Means Celtic v Rangers is seen as 'more' than a derby which is marketable. If these silly songs about Ireland weren't being sung at a Scottish football match it would be of the same quality and appeal as some pish like the Sheffield derby and nobody outwith Scotland would watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin McCann Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Sectarianism is a money spinner for Celtic and Rangers, that's the main problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I've not bothered reading this entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said, but what's the difference between sectarianism and every other 'ism'? 30 years ago or whatever racism was commonplace in football. It's disgusting, old fashioned and thankfully has been pretty much eradicated on the terracing. If the SFA/SPFL etc had taken the same attitude to it as they do to sectarianism then we would still have an issue up here. In fact we'd be blaming the non racists for having the cheek to be offended. Like I said, apologies if it's already been mentioned, but everytime I hear the sectarianism debate it makes me think of that analogy. Extreme? Maybe. You're spot on and I've said it many times myself. If sectarianism was part of the pc agenda it would have been dealt with long before now. It does my head in seeing these give racism the red card displays when they do sod all about Scottish footballs real problem. There's obviously no sectarianism box to tick though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quitongo's Left Peg Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 We won't see strict liability brought in for one reason - self interest. Celtic and Rangers know that they have substantial elements within their support that will never learn. These supporters are not only continuing to bring their clubs into disrepute through their own actions, but are passing down this so-called 'tradition' to their children who will likely carry on the cycle. If both Old Firm clubs eradicated this element completely (by accepting SL, better self-policing etc) then they know fine well that they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Sales of their faux-Irish/faux Unionist tat would drop significantly, and as such they'd be less able to splash cash they don't really have on foreign players that will do little more than appease their ADD support for another month. The SPFL secretly like sectarian songs I think. Means Celtic v Rangers is seen as 'more' than a derby which is marketable. If these silly songs about Ireland weren't being sung at a Scottish football match it would be of the same quality and appeal as some pish like the Sheffield derby and nobody outwith Scotland would watch it. The Old Firm derby has bigotry to thank for being seen as 'important' outwith these shores. It brings an element of hatred that can only be found when two similar sets of people use the others belief in a different sky fairy as a reason to dislike them. It's a pathetic situation, and one that only serves to keep the Scottish game in the gutter in the eyes of sane people worldwide. Whether we like it or not, people from all over the world will tune into these games with a sort of morbid curiosity usually reserved for death row executions or episodes of Miranda, and it will leave an indomitable mark on their opinion of Scottish football. The matches are usually dreadful, with "that's what to expect in an Old Firm game" being used as a convenient smoke screen to mask each side's lack of real footballing ability. The majority of places in Scotland have changed dramatically in the last few decades, with integration among all religions, creeds etc making our towns and cities a far better place to live. Turn on an Old Firm game however, and you'd be forgiven for thinking that nothing had changed since the 1920's. I don't have all the answers of how we eradicate this from our game, but fannying about with 'facial recognition' is nothing more than a PR exercise to try and fool folk into thinking that the SPFL have any interest in sorting this. Until a certain two clubs put the countries interests ahead of their own, we won't see any real change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I am more optimistic than you. I think clubs should be called to account - it's the only way left for fans to learn. Yep, points deduction is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennysmassiveego Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I too haven't read the whole thread but as a previous poster said , the only way is to punish the teams involved. The new laws proposed/published by the Scottish government are unworkable , just ask any law agent . What is sectarian behaviour? Is waving an pro IRA/UDA/ETA etc banner sectarian ? Some fans are offended by the Eire flag some by the Union Jack ? Is singing Irish ballads and their spin offs sectarian ? Who is the arbritor of this? My team sing the "Killie Boys " and often opposing fans accuse this of being sectarian , just because we use the same tune but with evidently different words ? In the 60's we used to sing a version of Sweet Molly Malone and her wheelbarrow which if you take this as a sectarian song ensures that we have offended both sides of the sectarian divide. IMO there should be a fans forum and we the fans , guided by the laws of the land and with club representatives involved , should decide what we see as sectarian behaviour . Simplistic I know but the SFA/SPFL/FIFA seem reluctant to take definitive action . Offending teams will be punished with a points deduction and repeat offenders relegated/expelled . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I've not bothered reading this entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said, but what's the difference between sectarianism and every other 'ism'? 30 years ago or whatever racism was commonplace in football. It's disgusting, old fashioned and thankfully has been pretty much eradicated on the terracing. If the SFA/SPFL etc had taken the same attitude to it as they do to sectarianism then we would still have an issue up here. In fact we'd be blaming the non racists for having the cheek to be offended. Like I said, apologies if it's already been mentioned, but everytime I hear the sectarianism debate it makes me think of that analogy. Extreme? Maybe. Excellent point well made. Let's compare it to this. I agree with this. The morons can sing whatever they like, I couldn't care less. The more bile the better IMO. Adds to the atmosphere. Maybe this moron would be happy to see us reverting to racist chants. After all it might add to the atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol City Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Anyone who gets offended over a song and believes people should be banned for singing need to have a fucking look at themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Anyone who gets offended over a song and believes people should be banned for singing need to have a fucking look at themselves So you would approve of racially offensive songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol City Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 So you would approve of racially offensive songs? Someone can call me a white b*****d all they want I'm not gonna go crying to the police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Someone can call me a white b*****d all they want I'm not gonna go crying to the police So if I stood making monkey noises at black players, that'd be fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol City Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 So if I stood making monkey noises at black players, that'd be fine? Again, I wouldn't call the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Again, I wouldn't call the police. Would it or would it not be an acceptable thing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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