sergie's no1 fan Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I wear one for my papa who fought in WW2. I don't wear it to offend anyone and if someone doesn't want to wear one, that is their right. No big deal. In my opinion it is just a wee symbol to remember and spare a thought for the sacrifice men made in a horrific point in our history. I think there are a lot worse things out there for people to get worked up about and the fact the Old Firm fans use it as a point scoring exercise says it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) I said it is my belief that the red poppy is an anti war message and that is my reason for wearing one. I also said that the people I know who wear white poppies give sanctimonious and ill informed reasons for doing so. None of these statements are all encompassing and certainly neither is straw man, (whatever that means). Well no, some of your statements were indeed all-encompassing: I object to the white poppy on the basis that, some of, the people who wear them are sanctimonious and ill informed about their reasons for wearing them. It's very existence perpetuates the myth that the red poppy is a celebration of war. I don't see a single qualification for your second sentence there - that's your claim, you have to back it up. 'Losing a family member' in a war = no dice. Even then, just because its your 'belief' doesn't mean that you get to insert a ludicrous straw man argument to support that belief, and avoid being called on it. Literally thousands of people lost family members and aren't compelled to wear a poppy - so it's clearly not a decisive issue. Edited October 29, 2015 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeboy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Think I might get one tattooed on my face That wouldn't go down well at Celtic games. Luckily, you don't go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I wear one for my papa who fought in WW2. I don't wear it to offend anyone and if someone doesn't want to wear one, that is their right. No big deal. In my opinion it is just a wee symbol to remember and spare a thought for the sacrifice men made in a horrific point in our history. I think there are a lot worse things out there for people to get worked up about and the fact the Old Firm fans use it as a point scoring exercise says it all. That about sums it up! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I honestly don't see how remembering how hundreds of thousands of people died is anything but anti war. Surely it's a visual reminder of the futility? Are you saying they are pro war? I don't think anyone has a problem with remembering the dead. There's a raft of other problems with the poppy appeal that I think people have though, most notably the fact that it's becoming increasingly conflated with the jingoistic "support our troops" rhetoric, which certainly doesn't sit easy with me. In saying that, if people want to wear a poppy, then go ahead, but criticising others for their preferred method of remembrance is pointless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Well no, some of your statements were indeed all-encompassing: I don't see a single qualification for your second sentence there - that's your claim, you have to back it up. 'Losing a family member' in a war = no dice. Even then, just because its your 'belief' doesn't mean that you get to insert a ludicrous straw man argument to support that belief, and avoid being called on it. Literally thousands of people lost family members and aren't compelled to wear a poppy - so it's clearly not a decisive issue. OK. On the second sentence. Can you please explain to me what the white poppy symbolises and why it has to be sold at the same time as the red poppy. If it's merely an anti war symbol then surely it'd be worn all year round? It's not though, it's worn by people during the same period that others wear the red poppy. My point is that it's conception was surely to be the antithesis of the red poppy? In which case, what is it trying to say about the red poppy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) OK. On the second sentence. Can you please explain to me what the white poppy symbolises and why it has to be sold at the same time as the red poppy. If it's merely an anti war symbol then surely it'd be worn all year round? It's not though, it's worn by people during the same period that others wear the red poppy. My point is that it's conception was surely to be the antithesis of the red poppy? In which case, what is it trying to say about the red poppy? It's probably aiming to state that the red poppy is a jingoistic symbol - whether hijacked for that purpose, or having been that way from the start. That's neither here nor there though - your complete dismissal of their perspective rests on the apparently crucial point that erm, a family member died in the war, and a red poppy is worn to commemorate this. Which is actually irrelevant to the wearing of a white poppy in the first place. Edited October 29, 2015 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 My point is that it's conception was surely to be the antithesis of the red poppy. Well that's a misconception. From that tiny acorn of misunderstanding has your oak of ignorance grown. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1446133821.726591.jpg I'm saying people wear them for all sorts of reasons, to suggest the poppy in itself is an anti-war symbol is ludicrous, whether some people wear it for that reason is neither here nor there. I don't think anyone has a problem with remembering the dead. There's a raft of other problems with the poppy appeal that I think people have though, most notably the fact that it's becoming increasingly conflated with the jingoistic "support our troops" rhetoric, which certainly doesn't sit easy with me. In saying that, if people want to wear a poppy, then go ahead, but criticising others for their preferred method of remembrance is pointless. Saints - that's why I wear it bud. Please don't try to lump me in with the horrible war criminal. I take your point however, there are some who certainly can't be seen to be anti war. I just don't think they are representative. Call me naïve if you like. One team. Completely agree. The 'support our troops' message and the political rhetoric which piggybacks the symbol is nauseating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanco Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I don't really see a reason why anyone wouldn't wear a poppy. Me neither, it takes an insignificant amount of effort and shows your gratitude and respect to a group of people, past and present, that have selflessly served their country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Me neither, it takes an insignificant amount of effort and shows your gratitude and respect to a group of people, past and present, that have selflessly served their country. Shows to whom? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) It's probably aiming to state that the red poppy is a jingoistic symbol - whether hijacked for that purpose, or having been that way from the start. That's neither here nor there though - your complete dismissal of their perspective rests on the apparently crucial point that erm, a family member died in the war, and a red poppy is worn to commemorate this. Which is actually irrelevant to the wearing of a white poppy in the first place. I'm sure your not being deliberately obtuse but I'll say it one more time for clarity. I PERSONALLY WEAR MY POPPY FOR THAT REASON, others may have different reasoning but I like to believe that they'd be the same as me - (again, I might be naïve) As has been mentioned, others also wear theirs to 'remember', (clue in the title of remembrance Sunday). As to the nature of the white poppy, what's different about what you just said to what I did? You also believe it's probably an anti red poppy message? As Saints pointed out, there are definitely wearers who are not anti war. (I believe that they wear the poppy because they feel they must and nothing more). So, if I, and others on here wear the poppy to remember, and the white poppy is trying to make some kind of statement about that, I was just looking to seek further clarity as to what that statement was. Edit: spelling Edited October 29, 2015 by killienick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Well that's a misconception. From that tiny acorn of misunderstanding has your oak of ignorance grown. Enlighten me. Why are they worn in preference to the red poppy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 White poppy eh? As Orwell put it: Since pacifists have more freedom of action in countries where traces of democracy survive, pacifism can act more effectively against democracy than for it. Objectively, the pacifist is pro-Nazi -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm sure your not being deliberately obtuse but I'll say it one more time for clarity. I PERSONALLY WEAR MY POPPY FOR THAT REASON, others may have different reasoning but I like to believe that they'd be the same as me - (again, I might be naïve) As has been mentioned, others also wear theirs to 'remember', (clue in the title of remembrance Sunday). As to the nature of the white poppy, what's different about what you just said to what I did? You also believe it's probably an anti red poppy message? As Saints pointed out, there are definitely wearers who are not anti war. (I believe that they wear the poppy because they feel they must and nothing more). So, if I, and others on here wear the poppy to remember, and the white poppy is trying to make some kind of statement about that, I was just looking to seek further clarity as to what that statement was. Edit: spelling You weren't seeking 'further clarity' - you immediately dismissed their reasons for doing so 'cos you wear a red poppy and a family member of your died in war, so there'. Which was highlighted as being a ludicrous straw man, and here we are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Who knew this thread would turn out like this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Hang on, a Celtic fan has joined in. Now the tedium can really begin. Who knew this thread would turn out like this? Called it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 White poppy eh? As Orwell put it: Oh dear. There's nothing more tedious than yet another insecure type using George Orwell to cover for their own ill thought-out opinions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Tom McB is a walloper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Who knew this thread would turn out like this? Called it. Started it in full knowledge. I really just wanted to share the fact that John Terry was talking about it on the tube FFS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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