St Mirren Relegation Express. Championship Edition.

[Johan Cruyff]

Yup good summation but Aitken's had a better overall season than Ross and with less resources.

[Fony Titz]

Is this Jack Ross thing not a bit OTT. He took over with Saints 2 points behind a part time Dumbarton team and has closed the gap to 1 point. Not exactly a massive achievement.

Yup totally over rated. He needs at least another 4 years at St mirren before any other club should consider looking at him.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Yup good summation but Aitken's had a better overall season than Ross and with less resources.

Aitken deserves huge credit for achieving another successful season at Dumbarton, nobody has really denied that. Same goes with Jim Duffy too.

Look at the state of the few pages of this thread and see how far Jack Ross has turned this round though.

[Ira Gaines]

The manner of the turnaround is worth a mention as well. There was a sense at one time during it that they could take something from every game they played and weren't far away from doing that. A far stretch from expecting them to lose every time they stepped out there.

[lionel wickson]

In all honesty, I think our turnaround in Season 2012/13 is more noteworthy.

Going into match 14 on Boxing Day against Falkirk away, we had 5 points on the board. They were already shovelling the dirt on our coffin at that point. At the season's end, we had 43 points having beaten every team in the league at least once. Neither ourselves or St Mirren will match that points total. There is at least one team in the league that I can think of that St Mirren have failed to beat this season, despite Jack Ross having been at the helm in three of those games.

This was all achieved without wholesale squad changes, the only two of any note were upgrading both full backs from Nicky Devlin and James Creaney, to Paul McGinn (cheers Buddies) and Scott Smith. We were training two nights a week on a half-size pitch (might have even been smaller!) indoors at Toryglen. Contrast that with St Mirren's full-time infrastructure and squad. Add on your good fortune in having the financial flexibility to ship 10 out and bring 10 in, along with your fans paying some money in (I think I heard that) and receipt of a healthy transfer fee (as Sons fan, what's a transfer fee?!) for Magennis (I know some, or perhaps the major part of that has been retained) and well, I think we trump your undoubtedly commendable achievement this season.

I'm sure someone will say, wait a minute Jack Ross was at the heart of that one too, as Ian Murray's assistant. Well, yes, but he was also Alan Adamson's assistant and caretaker manager in those depressing first 13 league games as we hurtled through a season that might even have surpassed Jim Fallon's season of infamy.

[Stu]

2 hours ago, lionel wickson said:

In all honesty, I think our turnaround in Season 2012/13 is more noteworthy.

Going into match 14 on Boxing Day against Falkirk away, we had 5 points on the board. They were already shovelling the dirt on our coffin at that point. At the season's end, we had 43 points having beaten every team in the league at least once. Neither ourselves or St Mirren will match that points total. There is at least one team in the league that I can think of that St Mirren have failed to beat this season, despite Jack Ross having been at the helm in three of those games.

This was all achieved without wholesale squad changes, the only two of any note were upgrading both full backs from Nicky Devlin and James Creaney, to Paul McGinn (cheers Buddies) and Scott Smith. We were training two nights a week on a half-size pitch (might have even been smaller!) indoors at Toryglen. Contrast that with St Mirren's full-time infrastructure and squad. Add on your good fortune in having the financial flexibility to ship 10 out and bring 10 in, along with your fans paying some money in (I think I heard that) and receipt of a healthy transfer fee (as Sons fan, what's a transfer fee?!) for Magennis (I know some, or perhaps the major part of that has been retained) and well, I think we trump your undoubtedly commendable achievement this season.

I'm sure someone will say, wait a minute Jack Ross was at the heart of that one too, as Ian Murray's assistant. Well, yes, but he was also Alan Adamson's assistant and caretaker manager in those depressing first 13 league games as we hurtled through a season that might even have surpassed Jim Fallon's season of infamy.

Bloody Dunfermline

[glenburn bud]

7 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

The first seven or eight games were shite under Jack. With hindsight though, it was a feeling out process that was absolutely necessary.

Shite like Hutton, Gallacher, Gallagher, Shankland etc had to be given their chances to justify their position in the side before being pumped out. Those that didn't do so were whittled out over the course of several matches and those who replaced them like Magennis and McAllister were a vast improvement, if still a stop gap. Performances almost instantly improved, even if results didn't right away. It was clear we needed a complete overhaul though, when that would happen was up for debate. 

I think it's a bit of an understatement to say that January is tricky to bring in quality, especially at our level, position and operating on a one in one out basis (yes he got a fee towards the end of the window for McAllister but the majority of business was done by that point and that money hasn't been touched). Most clubs simply supplement what they have and try to soldier through until the end of the season. Jack could have easily stuck with the garbage he had and claimed there wasn't much he could've done with the former manager's failed signings and several would have accepted that and given him a shot at being his own man in League One. He took a huge gamble though and almost instantly went to work one overhauling our entire squad in only a month...history shows that a team in the shit with a turnover of nearly a dozen players going each way is generally a recipe for further heartache. Morton fans will attest to this from the Kenny Sheils days. Ross willfully removed his trump card excuse of it not being his squad if it did all go tits up and I think the majority of Saints fans appreciated the risk to not only his position with us, but his entire career he was taking as a young manager and respected that.

James Fowler also spearheaded the much maligned 'LinkedIn recruitment drive' that saw so many others fans laughing at our desperation. This yielded two players, Pal Fjelde and Stelios Demetriou. The latter has been a massive influence on our season and has created some potentially defining moments in his short spell here.

Again, it's easy to say he was in charge of the poor performances but that only tells half the story. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that we've gone from the outright, absolute worst St. Mirren side I've ever seen, to the most exciting, attacking, entertaining side I've seen since the days of Tom Hendrie. That's all on the man at the helm for me, a lesser manager would have rolled over, accepted our fate and just hoped he got another 4 or 5 months next season before being punted. 

Jack Ross and his bold decisions have made our support go from absolutely dreading a Saturday, to sitting on a Monday counting down the days 'til we get to see our side again...in the space of just 4 months! Waxing lyrical? You're right we are.

Great post Chappy, sums up the remarkable turnaround in our season. What a job Jack Ross and James Fowler have done.

 

[Insaintee]

Ross never brought about an immediate change in fortune like the arrival of Garry Naysmith at QOS. Instead he started building things the way he wanted. It took time but it was clearly worth it. The board had the option to go for a Calderwood or MacPherson, there's no doubt they would have ground out points and shitfested it to safety, possibly even before now. But like Rae before them, the team would have been left in a weaker position not a stronger one. 

Ross has definitely not got everything right, He stuck with Clarkson, Shankland, Hutton and Webster far too long. Although to be fair, he probably never saw first hand how shit  they were until he came and saw for himself. And a couple of tight games, he's thrown the kitchen sink on when he could have held out for a draw. I think he's learned from that and is improving as a manager all the time. 

[irvine_buddie]

18 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

The first seven or eight games were shite under Jack. With hindsight though, it was a feeling out process that was absolutely necessary.

Shite like Hutton, Gallacher, Gallagher, Shankland etc had to be given their chances to justify their position in the side before being pumped out. Those that didn't do so were whittled out over the course of several matches and those who replaced them like Magennis and McAllister were a vast improvement, if still a stop gap. Performances almost instantly improved, even if results didn't right away. It was clear we needed a complete overhaul though, when that would happen was up for debate. 

I think it's a bit of an understatement to say that January is tricky to bring in quality, especially at our level, position and operating on a one in one out basis (yes he got a fee towards the end of the window for McAllister but the majority of business was done by that point and that money hasn't been touched). Most clubs simply supplement what they have and try to soldier through until the end of the season. Jack could have easily stuck with the garbage he had and claimed there wasn't much he could've done with the former manager's failed signings and several would have accepted that and given him a shot at being his own man in League One. He took a huge gamble though and almost instantly went to work one overhauling our entire squad in only a month...history shows that a team in the shit with a turnover of nearly a dozen players going each way is generally a recipe for further heartache. Morton fans will attest to this from the Kenny Sheils days. Ross willfully removed his trump card excuse of it not being his squad if it did all go tits up and I think the majority of Saints fans appreciated the risk to not only his position with us, but his entire career he was taking as a young manager and respected that.

James Fowler also spearheaded the much maligned 'LinkedIn recruitment drive' that saw so many others fans laughing at our desperation. This yielded two players, Pal Fjelde and Stelios Demetriou. The latter has been a massive influence on our season and has created some potentially defining moments in his short spell here.

Again, it's easy to say he was in charge of the poor performances but that only tells half the story. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that we've gone from the outright, absolute worst St. Mirren side I've ever seen, to the most exciting, attacking, entertaining side I've seen since the days of Tom Hendrie. That's all on the man at the helm for me, a lesser manager would have rolled over, accepted our fate and just hoped he got another 4 or 5 months next season before being punted. 

Jack Ross and his bold decisions have made our support go from absolutely dreading a Saturday, to sitting on a Monday counting down the days 'til we get to see our side again...in the space of just 4 months! Waxing lyrical? You're right we are.

Well summed up, I think the most important point is the massive gamble Jack Ross and James Fowler took personally by getting rid of 10 players (some of them relatively highly rated young players prior to the start of the season like Hardie, Shankland, Tom Walsh) and assembling his own team in a short amount of time. As you said, if things hadn't worked out the blame would have totaly been on JR and JF and could have ruined their careers.

Don't think JR should get manager of the year though when Steve Aitken is most likely going to finish above us with a part time Dumbarton team and Jim Duffy has Morton in the playoffs (even if they have been shit for the last month or so).

[sergie's no1 fan]

God bless linked in and all who have ridden her. The guy is a hero.

[lionel wickson]

19 hours ago, Insaintee said:

Ross never brought about an immediate change in fortune like the arrival of Garry Naysmith at QOS. Instead he started building things the way he wanted. It took time but it was clearly worth it. The board had the option to go for a Calderwood or MacPherson, there's no doubt they would have ground out points and shitfested it to safety, possibly even before now. But like Rae before them, the team would have been left in a weaker position not a stronger one. 

Ross has definitely not got everything right, He stuck with Clarkson, Shankland, Hutton and Webster far too long. Although to be fair, he probably never saw first hand how shit  they were until he came and saw for himself. And a couple of tight games, he's thrown the kitchen sink on when he could have held out for a draw. I think he's learned from that and is improving as a manager all the time. 

I don't think that's quite right. I think Naysmith took at least 5 or 6 games before he won a game and I seem to remember Queens fans commenting on how he had also had a significant winless run with East Fife immediately prior to his appointment and they weren't 100% convinced by him.

[Guest Flash]

56 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

I don't think that's quite right. I think Naysmith took at least 5 or 6 games before he won a game and I seem to remember Queens fans commenting on how he had also had a significant winless run with East Fife immediately prior to his appointment and they weren't 100% convinced by him.

Yeah, it was 5 games before he won any, but there was a kind of immediate effect after he brought in some new players at the start of January. But it didn't last and after only 2 wins in the last 10, I don't think anybody is 100% convinced even now. A summer clearout might help his cause.

[Tetragrammaton]

Which team would you skunks prefer to play in the playoffs? Airdrieonians, Brechin or East Fife?

[dardo]

Which team would you skunks prefer to play in the playoffs? Airdrieonians, Brechin or East Fife?

Awww, you still here sweetheart?

I, four one, had thought you'd disappeared for good.

I should have realised that people like you ten two show up from time to time.

Good on ye sport.

[Tetragrammaton]

13 hours ago, dardo said:

Awww, you still here sweetheart?

I, four one, had thought you'd disappeared for good.

I should have realised that people like you ten two show up from time to time.

Good on ye sport.

 

So would you prefer Airdrieonians, Brechin or East Fife?

[Jan Vojáček]

I'd just like to say good luck to Saints today. If they end up in the playoffs they'll stroll it, wheras Raith could easily go down and let us have another part-time side to battle with.

[NorthBank]

6 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

So would you prefer Airdrieonians, Brechin or East Fife?

We all know you are a closet Buddie. Time for you to man up and come out. You spend more time on here than at Crappielow so find the courage and declare your true allegiance so you can be one of the good guys when normal service resumes next year and the Ten slide back into obscurity. The new strips will be out soon and I am sure we have an XXXL that will fit you. #normalserviceresuming

[falkirkthebigclub]

Regarding the renaming of this site, I propose: Panda & Bovril, in honour of St Mirren's renaissance; or Pie & Minter which sums up Morton's season perfectly.

[Ira Gaines]

Just now, badgerthewitness said:

Regarding the renaming of this site, I propose: Panda & Bovril, in honour of St Mirren's renaissance; or Pie & Minter which sums up Morton's season perfectly.

It really doesn't. Despite the fall in form, we've had a very good season.

[Coventry Saint]

2 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

It really doesn't. Despite the fall in form, we've had a very good season.

This. As hilarious and predictable as your fall in form has been, you've had a great season, and have many of your squad signed up for another go next year. Just hoping we're still around. Could/should be an even tighter league next year.