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Howlin' Wilf

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Toby

Toby

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Following Morton, I have only seen trouble at matches on very few occasions. This season we had a group of Motherwell fans who did not like being papped out the cup by us and got involved in fight with stewards and police. Ibrox, however, takes the biscuit. Its the only ground where the visiting fans are routinely pelted with coins, catering items, golf balls and bottles. I have seldom seen any trouble at Parkhead but when their fans are away, its another story the "greatest fans in the world" have repeatedly got the club fined for their behaviour.

Over the years there has been the odd fight, usually between our own support over a difference of opinion over what constitutes supporting the team. I just don't accept that Morton or any other provincial team in Scotland with the odd exception has a big problem with hooliganism home or away. Also, those that do have an issue tend to have them in a particular time period such as Motherwell have just now with their casuals or whatever tribal name they call themselves. 20-25 years ago we had Morton casuals for a time. That ended as they all grew up and got married! The only perpetual problems come from those clubs with sectarian baggage - the old firm and to a lessor extent, Hearts and to an even less lessor extent, Hibs.

Let's not forget a Morton bus got it's window tanned by a brick outside Palmerston within the last few years.

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Ross.

Ross.

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I heard his comments on the Radio and they angered me.

The interviewer put to him that lots of fans will say it's essentially an OF problem, which he countered with the idea that 38 clubs have a hooligan element, while 16 have had fans charged under the Offensive Behaviour Act.

Using such facts to imply that the difficulties are equally shared is thoroughly dishonest.

If on Hibs' next visit to Palmerston, I stand up to loudly declare that Stubbs is a ****** b*****d or that I'm up to my knees in ****** blood, I'll rightly be arrested, ejected and charged. Yet, literally thousands were able to do that at Ibrox just after Christmas with no punishment.

That's why you get handfuls of arrests around the country, while huge numbers can break the law with impunity at the only two places where the the difficulty resides and gets exported from.

There is not the will to truly address this problem, because there is not a willingness to truly recognise it.

He's clearly trying to conflate 'anyone who has ever been done at/en route to a football match' for whatever reason, as being equivalent to sectarian, flare-throwing scum of the earth.

The Offensive Behaviour at Football act is a big part of the reason he is able to band everyone together. Essentially anyone who does anything that is offensive to someone is breaking that particular law. I was reading a while back about Hamilton fans who were charged for singing "f**k Motherwell", or words along those lines. That's taking being offended to an extreme, if you feel the need to report that. That said, I also think in many cases folk will take anything they can be offended by too far. Most Celtic and Rangers fans I know will happily sit in a pub and drink with each other while calling the other all the f**nian/h*n b*****ds in the world without it bothering them, but as soon as it happens at the football it suddenly becomes something else and is immediately more offensive to the same people because they can use it as a stick to beat the other team with.

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Skyline Drifter

Skyline Drifter

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Let's not forget a Morton bus got it's window tanned by a brick outside Palmerston within the last few years.

Yes, for a short while over the last couple of years we've had an irritating small group of young troublemakers. We had a fair few arrests last season and have a few ground bans in place. I am informed that we ranked No 7 in Scotland for problems at football matches last season. Still, as long as the wee cherubs are trying to get an atmosphere going eh................ :rolleyes: Northfield will be along in a minute to tell us how over-policed we are.

Pleasingly there has been virtually no issue at Palmerston this season though there were smoke bombs and problems caused by some at our away game at Annan right at the start of the season.

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Rugster

Rugster

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Yes, for a short while over the last couple of years we've had an irritating small group of young troublemakers. We had a fair few arrests last season and have a few ground bans in place. I am informed that we ranked No 7 in Scotland for problems at football matches last season. Still, as long as the wee cherubs are trying to get an atmosphere going eh................ :rolleyes: Northfield will be along in a minute to tell us how over-policed we are.

Pleasingly there has been virtually no issue at Palmerston this season though there were smoke bombs and problems caused by some at our away game at Annan right at the start of the season.

if the offensive behaviour act existed a few years ago I'd have reported your mob for 90 minutes of incessant "I've got a wheelbarrow" at TFS :angry:

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Monkey Tennis

Monkey Tennis

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Many clubs have a minority of fans who idolise football casual culture. It's not just an old firm problem that a minority of idiots dream of the days of English hooliganism in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Or the fandans who think that "nae pyro = nae party" and are in awe of European ultras groups. It's less of a problem at smaller clubs but it doesn't mean that these idiots aren't out there.

But when you see crazy decisions such as the police allowing Rangers and Dumbarton fans to walk together to the perimeter wall around the ground but force the visiting Gers fans to take the long route around the 3 fenced sides to their part of our stand, It really does raise the question of overly officious policing. A minority of fans from many clubs are utter arseholes - the police response is usually to punish the decent fan with overzealous policing.

It's a bigger problem for OF clubs because they have more fans. That doesn't mean it's solely an OF problem.

You're missing the point here and as noted elsewhere, reaching a lazy - and I'd say essentially stupid - conclusion. Of course fans of clubs other than the OF are capable of poor behaviour - only a lunatic would try to suggest otherwise. As SD says, we had a group of young arseholes causing a problem at Palmerston last season.

The point however is that this story has a profile because of the sectarian element. That is very largely confined to two clubs. The point is also that fans of these clubs are able to behave with a fair degree of impunity because there are so many of them behaving in anti-social ways at the same time, that it's a difficult thing to contain the issue, and then address it.

I reject absolutely the suggestion that the OF have more arseholes simply because they've more fans. Both clubs have a very direct and deliberate appeal for anti-social elements, the type inclined to discriminate against others on the basis of background. That's why their difficulties are on a different scale. I'm not for a moment suggesting that all OF fans see things this way - that would be ridiculous. Let's not pretend that the scale and nature of the trouble-making elements in OF supports is remotely proportionate though.

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The_Kincardine

The_Kincardine

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I reject absolutely the suggestion that the OF have more arseholes simply because they've more fans. Both clubs have a very direct and deliberate appeal for anti-social elements.

The most complete analysis I could find on charges made under this act is here:

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0045/00452585.pdf

The charges per club is shown here:

post-44711-0-82576800-1452876144_thumb.j

About half the charges are for OF fans and about half are for diddy fans - which is broadly in line with the support base.

I reject absolutely the suggestion that the OF have more arseholes simply because they've more fans. Both clubs have a very direct and deliberate appeal for anti-social elements, they type inclined to discriminate against others on the basis of background.

30% of charges relate to religion. Almost half are to do with 'Making threats/challenging others to fights':

post-44711-0-77283400-1452876548_thumb.j

So what the charge figures suggest is that half of the problems are caused by diddies and the single biggest cause is starting fights. "There could have been more arrests if the police did their job" isn't an adequate response to this.

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Monkey Tennis

Monkey Tennis

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The most complete analysis I could find on charges made under this act is here:

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0045/00452585.pdf

The charges per club is shown here:

attachicon.gifclubs supported.JPG

About half the charges are for OF fans and about half are for diddy fans - which is broadly in line with the support base.

30% of charges relate to religion. Almost half are to do with 'Making threats/challenging others to fights':

attachicon.gifnature of offense.JPG

So what the charge figures suggest is that half of the problems are caused by diddies and the single biggest cause is starting fights. "There could have been more arrests if the police did their job" isn't an adequate response to this.

Interesting stuff.

The OF are actually responsible for well in excess of 50% of such charges, as your figures prove.

What you also establish is that threatening, aggressive behaviour is far more prevalent among OF fans, which is again entirely supportive of my earlier comments.

Furthermore, your asserting that the claim that "There could have been more arrests if the police did their job" is inadequate; does not, of itself, render it so I'm afraid.

The experience of anyone who's been to games featuring OF sides, or who even possesses a TV, would tell you how mistaken you are.

The Police is an organism thoroughly immersed in a world of PR and spin. We heard misleading spin this morning which was designed to divert from the nature of a problem which the Police - for understandable reasons - are struggling to confront.

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Howlin' Wilf

Howlin' Wilf

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She came up on my Facebook the other night, a certain well known Sons fan appears to be friends with her on it. Signs of the secret hooligan tendencies in our support imo.

I hear a lot of things at games which are offensive to my intelligence. The next time someone claims for offside from a throw in I'm going to get them the jail.

Or indeed direct from a corner or goal kick. The key word though is direct.

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The_Kincardine

The_Kincardine

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So 49% between over 30 teams.

Not even 2% each

49% amongst 40 teams. An average of less than 1.25%

The charges are broadly in line with the number of supporters. IE the diddies make up about half the support and faced about half the charges.

I'm actually surprised by the diddies' view on this. There seems to be two key points that are misunderstood:

1. It's all about The OF. Clearly it isn't.

2. It's all about sectarianism. Clearly it isn't.

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