Bernie the Bolt

[The_Kincardine]

The charge figures are wildly misleading

You have a choice of accepting evidence or basing your opinion on onanistic self-indulgence.

However, it is undeniable that the main issue lies with Celtic and Sevco. The tradegy is that you diddies won't admit it and will play the victim again

Are you going from boringly stupid to just stupid? Half the charges were levelled against supporters of diddy teams.

There should be a big conversation to be had about the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 but sadly the diddies are too thick to discuss it and the plastics think it's all about us.

This thread is really saddening.

[NewBlue]

You have a choice of accepting evidence or basing your opinion on onanistic self-indulgence.

Are you going from boringly stupid to just stupid? Half the charges were levelled against supporters of diddy teams.

There should be a big conversation to be had about the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 but sadly the diddies are too thick to discuss it and the plastics think it's all about us.

This thread is really saddening.

So 50% of the charges were leveled against supporters of just 2 clubs, is that what you are saying?

[The_Kincardine]

So 50% of the charges were leveled against supporters of just 2 clubs, is that what you are saying?

Yup.

[NewBlue]

Yup.

Cool. Just glad to see you can identify where the problem is.

[Monkey Tennis]

You have a choice of accepting evidence or basing your opinion on onanistic self-indulgence.

You have provided evidence of numbers charged. I accept that these figures are accurate.

I don't however accept that they reflect the real picture of offences committed.

[The_Kincardine]

You have provided evidence of numbers charged. I accept that these figures are accurate. I don't however accept that they reflect the real picture of offences committed.

We're trying to have an evidence-based discussion here, Monkey. Take your inconsequential, anecdotal whining to the Rangers threads that you haunt.

[The_Kincardine]

Cool. Just glad to see you can identify where the problem is.

The problem is (generally) proportionate to the number of fans per club.

[Monkey Tennis]

We're trying to have an evidence-based discussion here, Monkey. Take your inconsequential, anecdotal whining to the Rangers threads that you haunt.

But you wish to represent a particular piece of evidence of one measure, as utterly conclusive. A more intelligent reading would recognise its limitations.

[The_Kincardine]

But you wish to represent a particular piece of evidence of one measure, as utterly conclusive.

Try and read that sentence back and then relate it to the topic. It makes not one iota of sense.

[Monkey Tennis]

Try and read that sentence back and then relate it to the topic. It makes not one iota of sense.

It makes perfect sense.

Discussing anything with you these days is virtually impossible.

[The_Kincardine]

Discussing anything with you these days is virtually impossible.

Of course it isn't. The big problem with the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 is that it treats football fans differently to the rest of the population. That this was passed by the Scottish parliament is utterly shameful.

The bigger tragedy is that the supine diddies and their moronic plastic pals who post on here have no grasp on this.

[Monkey Tennis]

My understanding, though limited, is that it's considered a poor piece of legislation that was arguably unnecessary.

Many objections however, come from those who who wish to be able to behave in offensive ways and to have a right to do so, protected.

[NewBlue]

Of course it isn't. The big problem with the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 is that it treats football fans differently to the rest of the population. That this was passed by the Scottish parliament is utterly shameful.

The bigger tragedy is that the supine diddies and their moronic plastic pals who post on here have no grasp on this.

I guess it is interesting that they decided they needed a bill in the first place when surely the majority of offenses covered by it would be considered offenses under other provisions. However, if you are going to go to the football and act a tit then you should be prepared to be treated like one.

It is also interesting that the act covers games played outside of Scotland if it involves a Scottish team, so if the Bears get another trip to Manchester they could be locked up for being bigots when they get home.

[The_Kincardine]

Many objections however, come from those who who wish to be able to behave in offensive ways and to have a right to do so, protected.

This is what The Plastics hoped for from the act. It hasn't worked well for them.

I guess it is interesting that they decided they needed a bill in the first place when surely the majority of offenses covered by it would be considered offenses under other provisions. However, if you are going to go to the football and act a tit then you should be prepared to be treated like one.

Indeed, but if you go to any other sport/public event and act like a tit then you'll be treated more leniently than a football tit. This is the very gist of my objection. Football fans are singled out.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Football fans are singled out.

Because of the bigot brothers.

[The_Kincardine]

Because of the bigot brothers.

I guess you've not read the rest of the thread. Shame on you.

[Scary Bear]

Why don't the police just do what we all want and arrest more The Rangers fans? It's the obvious solution. They're the worst fans in Scottish football.

Further proof, if any more was needed, that Police Scotland are underperforming.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Thinking of fans of other clubs who I've witnessed either get aggressive or just... arseholey the list would probably take in half the league at one point or another but there's something truly unsettling about many Old Firm fans attitude to it.

I've been to Balmoor twice, as an example, and each time, on the way back to my mate's car wee neds in Peterhead scarves were chucking stones at the Morton fans and when the subject was broached on the match thread at the time the Peterhead fans were giving the usual "not real fans" pish but were also talking about how it's not the first time it's happened, stuff needs to be done, police and club should be more aware of what goes on outside the ground, etc. I seem to recall someone pleading with Arbroath (or whoever they were playing at home next) fans to just kick the shit out of them to teach them a lesson. They were aware of these wee arseholes, much likes the QotS fans seem to be on here, and wanted them to f**k off.

Then ye look at Rangers fans reactions when someone nearly got hit with a Buckie bottle back in December at Ibrox when we went. Just legion of Sevconians saying it didn't happen. When Hibs and Raith fans make similar complaints about getting pelted with coins it's just dismissed as away fans talking shite to get them in trouble. Ye hear their fans on the telly informing the world they're knee deep in ****** blood and we're told it's a "minority" yet the "majority" do a grand total of f**k all about.

Then the Celtic fans with their folk songs and flares and wishing they were on the Curva Nord in some romantic ideal of 1980s Ultra culture, but looking like a faded embarrassment, get into trouble for acting the p***ks more often than not and they're still "The Best Fans In The World™" and turn into discussion into a game of pass the whataboutery.

There seems to be a constant stream of defending, or ignoring, the multitude of fudknuckles in the Old Firm support by their other supporters. I can understand this to a level as they're often the ones getting the most accusations flung their way but it seems a bit incredulous many of their fans don't realise it's their tactics of deny and deflect that aren't helping.

When ye've seen yer mates flung out of grounds for moaning about being forced to sit on a seat covered in bird shite but see hundreds of fake weegies sing about killing folk based on their religion, or singing ditties honouring those that have done so, being ignored by stewards and coppers it begins to piss ye aff a bit.

[Monkey Tennis]

Thinking of fans of other clubs who I've witnessed either get aggressive or just... arseholey the list would probably take in half the league at one point or another but there's something truly unsettling about many Old Firm fans attitude to it.

I've been to Balmoor twice, as an example, and each time, on the way back to my mate's car wee neds in Peterhead scarves were chucking stones at the Morton fans and when the subject was broached on the match thread at the time the Peterhead fans were giving the usual "not real fans" pish but were also talking about how it's not the first time it's happened, stuff needs to be done, police and club should be more aware of what goes on outside the ground, etc. I seem to recall someone pleading with Arbroath (or whoever they were playing at home next) fans to just kick the shit out of them to teach them a lesson. They were aware of these wee arseholes, much likes the QotS fans seem to be on here, and wanted them to f**k off.

Then ye look at Rangers fans reactions when someone nearly got hit with a Buckie bottle back in December at Ibrox when we went. Just legion of Sevconians saying it didn't happen. When Hibs and Raith fans make similar complaints about getting pelted with coins it's just dismissed as away fans talking shite to get them in trouble. Ye hear their fans on the telly informing the world they're knee deep in ****** blood and we're told it's a "minority" yet the "majority" do a grand total of f**k all about.

Then the Celtic fans with their folk songs and flares and wishing they were on the Curva Nord in some romantic ideal of 1980s Ultra culture, but looking like a faded embarrassment, get into trouble for acting the p***ks more often than not and they're still "The Best Fans In The World" and turn into discussion into a game of pass the whataboutery.

There seems to be a constant stream of defending, or ignoring, the multitude of fudknuckles in the Old Firm support by their other supporters. I can understand this to a level as they're often the ones getting the most accusations flung their way but it seems a bit incredulous many of their fans don't realise it's their tactics of deny and deflect that aren't helping.

When ye've seen yer mates flung out of grounds for moaning about being forced to sit on a seat covered in bird shite but see hundreds of fake weegies sing about killing folk based on their religion, or singing ditties honouring those that have done so, being ignored by stewards and coppers it begins to piss ye aff a bit.

Very good post.

There's a preparedness to defend or deny the worst excesses of OF fans from too many people who are incapable of such behaviour themselves, yet follow the same football teams.

The last paragraph captures why the published figures of those charged, the ones highlighted by Higgins and posted by Kincardine, are wildly misleading.

Kincardine of course, doesn't rely on them because of his innate respect for the process by which they were arrived at - indeed he disapproves strongly of the legislation employed.

However, he's happy to labour on with the contradiction of quoting them, because they support his preferred reading.

[Monkey Tennis]

Indeed, but if you go to any other sport/public event and act like a tit then you'll be treated more leniently than a football tit. This is the very gist of my objection. Football fans are singled out.

As are people who travel by airlines, due to the perception of risk.

Association Football fans have long been singled out, which is why you can't buy a drink at a football match where the ball is spherical, but won't have a difficulty otherwise.