Tommy Robinson

[Fullerene]

39 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Breivik's "manifesto" is predictably bonkers, yet he campaigned for, and was delighted to be adjudged as perfectly sane and suitable for general prison population. Make of that what you will, but I find the assertion that a perfectly normal, sane bloke can go on a rampage and murder 69 people and injure a load more to be a bit puzzling. 

I suppose history is full of examples of people and groups taking to violence to push for what they perceived to be perfectly legitimate goals, and once those aims were met, history rewrites itself and they are rehabilitated as freedom fighters or heroes rather than terrorists or murderers, but the weird thing about Breivik is I can't ever see a time where his politics and outlook are thought of as normal, but the Norwegian Judiciary system decided "nope, he's perfectly sane". 

Question of terminology.  I am not an expert but as I understand it sanity versus insanity is a medical condition that can be appraised by doctors to see if someone is truly responsible for their actions.

As such, he was not insane.  Seriously unhinged or something else but he was fully aware of his actions and punished accordingly.

You could argue that anyone who commits a serious crime must be insane but in a medical sense that would not be correct.

[Cheese]

26 minutes ago, Luddite said:

Because although Robinson may have his own self-serving reasons for producing the film that doesn't negate the testimony of people not aligned with him, who have nothing to gain by talking to him and who have been paid to sign NDAs.

You seem to have replaced has with may have here.

Does this testimony include the non consensual covertly filmed stuff that Robinson actually produced in court and was still found guilty?

Ultimately though, this is not very 'non duelist' of you. Shouldn't you be equally pushing a non Tommy produced documentary on the subject? 

[welshbairn]

17 hours ago, Luddite said:

By your logic OJ Simpson was innocent and there was no need to investigate Hillsborough or the Post Office scandal any further.

Aye, we need a public enquiry to determine whether poor Tommy was as badly treated as the Postmasters.

[velo army]

34 minutes ago, Luddite said:

It wasn't well made. Robinson is not a good speaker. Some spelling errors in the captions too, wasn't well edited.  However I was less concerned with the aesthetics than hearing what the school staff had to say 

You can judge him, certainly, he's all over the media,  but how can you judge the testimony of people in a film you haven't seen? 

"Agenda"? Fine, if that helps you sleep at night

The most insulting thing I have said is it is "intellectually lazy", which I stand by.  I was a bit condescending to a poster I confused with someone who got personal with me, and then apologized.

The thin skin on here has been quite surprising though, I've seen the sort of language and insults  bandied around in this site, then suddenly everyone becomes a retiring wallflower

 

I haven't demanded anyone watch anything, I've stated that I don't understand the mindset of not seeing the value in reading or watchinh material you may disagree with or made by someone you disagree with.

See my point above about "insulting"

 

I've stated multiple multiple times, the film won't change your mind on Tommy Robinson. Other ordinary people in the film, not aligned with Robinson, have, In my opinion, interesting things to say about the school incident.

As far as being genuine, I've stated multiple multiple times that Robinson is not genuine but the school staff and parents featured are genuine.

I haven't demanded anyone watch it, see my response above.l

 

I never demanded anyone watch it. I asked if anyone watched it and then explained that despite my dislike of Tommy Robinson personally there were some interesting things to learn from other people who gained no benefit from talking bout an incident.

 

Because although Robinson may have his own self-serving reasons for producing the film that doesn't negate the testimony of people not aligned with him, who have nothing to gain by talking to him and who have been paid to sign NDAs.

I insulted one person in response to my mistaken view they had insulted me, I then apologized.

The most inflammatory language I used is "intellectually lazy" on a forum where insults and curse words are bandied about regularly. Hence my "Pearl clutching" remark.

That's fair enough. I used the word "insulting" as you admitted to insulting another poster. It wasn't my interpretation of what you were doing, I did find you very condescending though, which didn't help.

I think I would be interested to hear what the leader of these riots had to say if he was actually a good faith actor. There is only so much time in the day and, as Cosmic Joe said, there are better and more credible sources of insight than just listening to a man whose entire raison d'etre is to be an empty provocateur. It definitely isn't intellectually lazy to refuse to give any time or energy to his "documentary". There aren't always two sides to an argument. 

 

[Boo Khaki]

10 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Question of terminology.  I am not an expert but as I understand it sanity versus insanity is a medical condition that can be appraised by doctors to see if someone is truly responsible for their actions.

As such, he was not insane.  Seriously unhinged or something else but he was fully aware of his actions and punished accordingly.

You could argue that anyone who commits a serious crime must be insane but in a medical sense that would not be correct.

Sure. It's much the same in the UK where you can be deemed "sane", and it doesn't actually mean much more than having had the capacity to understand your actions at the time when you carried out your acts, and therefore, you are fit and able to face trial and serve your sentence in a typical prison.

I suppose with Breivik the telling thing is that not much has been said about the undoubted follow-up by Norwegian shrink services. That "silences" him far more effectively than limiting his ability to publish, or communicate with the outside world. You're left speculating about personality disorders, psychopathy, and so on, which I think is preferable to a scenario whereby he's assessed and they conclude there genuinely isn't much disordered about him. I think the same is going on with Lucy Letby just now. A lot of people really struggling to comprehend how she could have done what she did while still being fit and able to stand trial and serve in a normal prison, but they don't realise that being deemed "sane" at the time of your acts and fit for trial doesn't mean that after years of forensic examination in prison it turns out you are indeed, bonkers, and get carted off to Broadmoor/Rampton. I think that's where Letby will eventually end up, but AFAIK Breivik is still in regular prison, or at least he was when he won his case complaining that solitary and isolation was inhumane.

Edited August 9 by Boo Khaki

[Jambomo]

1 hour ago, Luddite said:

The most insulting thing I have said is it is "intellectually lazy", which I stand by.

It’s absolutely not intellectually lazy to not watch that Robinson video.

Evaluating sources and deciding what to watch/read based on what you know of them is digital literacy 101. Nobody can watch/read everything so you have to make decisions and choices.

Robinson is a known Racist, but more importantly for this, a known liar. The need to factcheck everything  he has ever said or written,  (which I doubt you did) outweighs any actual value that comes in watching it. Most of what he thinks and says is built on lies, therefore it’s perfectly legitimate to consider that film a waste of time to watch that it also will be full of lies.

If he wants people to watch his work, he needs not to have a track record of knowingly publishing and airing lies.

[Bully Wee Villa]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't think anyone has ever  claimed it's an accurate or well written text.

It is historically significant though.  That's the wider point being made about accessing texts composed by those whose ideas we might reject.

I've no idea why that point seems to be causing some posters such difficulty.

The point that people can read stuff like that without being a Nazi is entirely valid. But Luddite was ridiculing anyone that chose not do so and being a condescending arse at the same time.

"No different to Daily Mail readers", "intellectually lazy" and "go back to your Marvel movies" are hardly likely to win people over.

Edited August 9 by Bully Wee Villa

[sophia]

In this unedifying pile-on, one thing is clear, all of those that are getting so very anxious about influencing the viewing decisions of others, have quite clearly viewed enough of the poison previously in order to come to their own conclusions. 

Rank hypocrisy as Roy Jenkins would no doubt have said. 

Oh and what's wrong to give some back to the pile-onners, or is that not allowed @Bully Wee Villa? 

[Bully Wee Villa]

What pile on? It was about three in the morning and there were only two of us awake! I said I don't want to watch Nazi videos and he proceeded to insult me, unprovoked. If you have a problem with moderating in future raise a report. 

Edited August 9 by Bully Wee Villa

[tongue_tied_danny]

It's getting too serious here.

Let's lighten things up a bit by watching Tommeh fall on his arse.

 

Edited August 9 by tongue_tied_danny

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, sophia said:

In this unedifying pile-on, one thing is clear, all of those that are getting so very anxious about influencing the viewing decisions of others, have quite clearly viewed enough of the poison previously in order to come to their own conclusions. 

There's only been one person trying to influence the viewing decisions of others. Stephen Yaxley Lennon is no Alfred Dreyfus or Emile Zola, there is no shame in ignoring his work.

[Cosmic Joe]

[Cheese]

2 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

Stacey Vint The Wheelie Bint might make for a nice one-off Viz strip 

Video of the incident.

 

 

[velo army]

Vinter

[Alan Twelve]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Video of the incident.

 

 

A third of a Zoom call.

On a connected note, I read that laws designed to tackle those who aid organised criminals without being directly involved in the crimes are now being used to target climate protestors. Presumably these will also be used against the likes of Fox and Farage and other right-wing shit-stirrers otherwise it'll smack of the two-tier policing they so abhor.

[carpetmonster]

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Video of the incident.

 

 

It's perhaps fitting that at almost exactly the same time as we've lost the protagonist of perhaps one of the most magnificent arrests ever, he can look down from Heaven (with the angles) at one of the most tinpot. Circle of life and all. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

45 minutes ago, sophia said:

In this unedifying pile-on, one thing is clear, all of those that are getting so very anxious about influencing the viewing decisions of others, have quite clearly viewed enough of the poison previously in order to come to their own conclusions. 

Rank hypocrisy as Roy Jenkins would no doubt have said. 

Oh and what's wrong to give some back to the pile-onners, or is that not allowed @Bully Wee Villa? 

In which alternate reality was this?

[Rugster]

43 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

What pile on? It was about three in the morning and there were only two of us awake! I said I don't want to watch Nazi videos and he proceeded to insult me, unprovoked. If you have a problem with moderating in future raise a report. 

Sophia is a well known lunatic. I wouldn’t pay too much attention. 

[Cosmic Joe]

5 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

It's perhaps fitting that at almost exactly the same time as we've lost the protagonist of perhaps one of the most magnificent arrests ever, he can look down from Heaven (with the angles) at one of the most tinpot. Circle of life and all. 

I'm needing more context here.

Magnificent arrests ever? I'm thinking a serial East Fife meatwaggon inhabitant getting frogmarched around Hampden circa 1983.

[sophia]

2 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

In which alternate reality was this?

Its a P&B hardy annual and when @Rugsterpitches up with abuse that isn't necessary, it's a sign that things gave taken a turn for the turgid.