Raith v Queens, 4th v 5th.

[Dazzle]

Half of our fanbase is genuinely laughable, honestly some guys would be aswell just staying at home and watching Barcelona every week. I really don't know what some folk expect from us or how they think we should be playing every week, we have been severely hampered by injuries recently and we are still in 4th place in a race which will go right down to the wire. Give Ray a chance to get a striker in before Saturday and with the addition of Connolly and Vaughan/Thomson/Toshney coming back and let's see if the team can finish 4th and have a go at the playoffs. We have the basis of a good side which I'm sure Ray is only going to improve.

[Rover the Moon]

You could also argue that we are drawing games we would have lost last season

So chucking away a 3-0 lead and drawing 0-0 at home to Dumbarton is now a sign of progress?

[Rover the Moon]

Half of our fanbase is genuinely laughable, honestly some guys would be aswell just staying at home and watching Barcelona every week. I really don't know what some folk expect from us or how they think we should be playing every week.

If you go to the pretty big expense of sacking a manager who has a year left on his contract and bring in someone from another club (and any associated compensation figure that would involve) then I would like to think there would be a real, tangible improvement on the park. If there's not been, then it was a total waste of money of which we don't have much to start with.

I don't expect us to be like Barca. Fck sake, I'm essentially arguing Grant Murray should still be in charge of the club so I hardly think I'm being overly ambitious in my expectations.

[CALDERON]

In the playoff places at the end of Jan is improvement enough for me. Finish there in May and this season will have been a success.

Lets judge Mckinnon at the end of the season, like he deserves to.

Murray served a season and a half of utter utter horse-shit. Yet you still prefer him over someone who has had barely half a season to prove himself?

[Rover the Moon]

In the playoff places at the end of Jan is improvement enough for me. Finish there in May and this season will have been a success.

Lets judge Mckinnon at the end of the season, like he deserves to.

Murray served a season and a half of utter utter horse-shit. Yet you still prefer him over someone who has had barely half a season to prove himself?

At the moment, yes. McKinnon has much to do apart from give a few decent pre-match interviews.

So, given what you said, if we finish anywhere outside the top 4 you would consider this season a failure?

[Raithie]

For me personally I'm a bit more frustrated this year especially as we're now clinging onto 4th spot but generally the teams below us have been a combination of poor/inconsistent (much like us) which is kinda blinkering a few people into thinking we're better than we are. Last season I was coming out of games saying to myself "why the f**k am I watching this dross", I've never really felt that way this season, it's more "could have and should have won that". Maybe I'm easy pleased. There's been a few 'wtf!!!' results along the way but hey ho. Just have to see how things pan out as the weeks go on.

[Cannon Fodder]

Finishing less that 17 points from 4th will be an improvement on last year.

[CALDERON]

At the moment, yes. McKinnon has much to do apart from give a few decent pre-match interviews.

So, given what you said, if we finish anywhere outside the top 4 you would consider this season a failure?

I expect us to be in the mix for 4th place until the end at least. Something Murray never achieved

[Dazzle]

If you go to the pretty big expense of sacking a manager who has a year left on his contract and bring in someone from another club (and any associated compensation figure that would involve) then I would like to think there would be a real, tangible improvement on the park. If there's not been, then it was a total waste of money of which we don't have much to start with.

I don't expect us to be like Barca. Fck sake, I'm essentially arguing Grant Murray should still be in charge of the club so I hardly think I'm being overly ambitious in my expectations.

There was an improvement on the park though before we became hampered with injuries, I don't think you'll find anyone in the support who doesn't think we need another striker in the squad (preferably one who will score a lot of the chances we miss week in week out) but we have improved over the whole.

For a start we are much more solid defensively than last season, we took numerous hammerings off poor sides last season but Ray has brought in Bene and Toshney and we have improved ten fold, unfortunately we have lost two of our back 4 which kept so many clean sheets earlier in the season and we are now a little more suspectable at the back.

As for scoring last season there were times where we looked lost for ideas and we were never going to score goals, we were seriously bad at times under Murray however now I just feel like we are short of a striker to put all of the chances away for us, Saturday for example we could have had 3 or 4 on another day but lack of clinical finishing and some good defending meant we never. If Ray can get a good striker in before the window closes combined with 2 of our main 4 defenders coming back I think we will go on another run of good results.

At least give the team til the end of the season to see what this squad is capable off.

[Rover the Moon]

Finishing less that 17 points from 4th will be an improvement on last year.

Even if we finish 7th with 42pts?

[Rover the Moon]

I expect us to be in the mix for 4th place until the end at least. Something Murray never achieved

So would finishing outside the top 4 be a failure? 21pts from the first 10 games remember.

[Brashy's Boots]

If you go to the pretty big expense of sacking a manager who has a year left on his contract and bring in someone from another club (and any associated compensation figure that would involve) then I would like to think there would be a real, tangible improvement on the park. If there's not been, then it was a total waste of money of which we don't have much to start with.

I don't expect us to be like Barca. Fck sake, I'm essentially arguing Grant Murray should still be in charge of the club so I hardly think I'm being overly ambitious in my expectations.

Not sure you'll find many agreeing with you on that idea. McKinnon has been without his 1st team for weeks and weeks and we're still 4th, albeit tremulously. Do you really, honestly think the football hasn't improved? Never mind the stats - they don't take account of critical missing players - just on style or even competence? As has been pointed out, we're conceding fewer.

[CALDERON]

So would finishing outside the top 4 be a failure? 21pts from the first 10 games remember.

Depends on the circumstances. Should we get in a striker and make a real fight of it second half of the season, I'd be happy enough.

The harsh reality is that Murray didnt set the bar very high. If we are right in the playoff mix towards the end of April then thats already progress.

[Dazzle]

Surely with Hibs and Rangers in the league anyway, most realistic expections were

1) get a better calibre of player in to push for the playoffs and then make a real of go if next season

2) play a better standard of football

3) not get so many embarrassing results as we did last season.

I'd say we're well on course to achieve all of that which surely means progress.

[Rover the Moon]

Not sure you'll find many agreeing with you on that idea. McKinnon has been without his 1st team for weeks and weeks and we're still 4th, albeit tremulously. Do you really, honestly think the football hasn't improved? Never mind the stats - they don't take account of critical missing players - just on style or even competence? As has been pointed out, we're conceding fewer.

We played some pretty stuff against Alloa and Dumbarton in short spells, much like we did at the very, very start of the season. From the middle of August to the start of January though we reverted to the "hoofball" Murray was criticised for to accommodate Daly. So what exactly is McKinnon's "style" or way of playing? I can't say I'm thoroughly enjoying watching us. Can you?

I go back to it again. I just don't think the financial outlay of change has been justified to date.

I hope he proves me wrong.

[Cannon Fodder]

Even if we finish 7th with 42pts?

Of course not. I was more highlighting how far away we finished last year.

Out of interest, what position in the league would justify the outlay of sacking Murray?

[Scary Bear]

So, has the 'Clocks go Back' syndrome struck again?

[Paco]

I think if we're comparing to Grant Murray we need to acknowledge Murray took us nowhere in three full seasons. We finished 7th with 44 points in McGlynn's last season (2011-12) and last season we finished 6th with 43 points under Murray. Murray's intervening seasons had a final finish of 6th with 46 points in 12/13 and 7th in 13/14 with 42 points.

The above is the definition of going quite literally nowhere. If McKinnon goes three years down the same line then comparisons are fair - currently we're in a higher spot than Murray ever managed but an alarming collapse since the clocks went back means we probably won't be for much longer.

Games we aren't winning, on the balance of play we should be winning. If Megginson and Longridge were even semi composed against Alloa and Dumbarton we'd have a very healthy lead in fourth place, with a chance to take an eight point gap on Saturday. All ifs and buts, McKinnon doesn't hide that we need a striker and he's at least being honest about that and is clearly trying to get somebody. We've had at least five strikers on trial since summer that we haven't signed, to me that's a big positive as McKinnon won't just take anybody because we need someone in - Ross Perry is the shining example of why not to do that.

So to sum up, sure things have been poor since October and if we continue on the current trajectory McKinnon will rightly take pelters. A win on Saturday though and regardless of our poor form we're in a great position heading into the last 15 matches.

[Scary Bear]

That's another possible reason why our crowds are back to diehard levels and why we can't even pull in a crowd for big games anymore. No-one wants to support mediocrity. Years of mediocrity has killed the levels of support and any passion from the stands.

Hopefully, given time, Ray can change the situation. Not too much time, though. I'm not willing to sit through another couple of seasons of this. If we don't make the play-offs this season, hopefully Ray can sort the midfield and get some competent forwards in for next season.

[Rover the Moon]

Of course not. I was more highlighting how far away we finished last year.

Out of interest, what position in the league would justify the outlay of sacking Murray?

Relegation, but even then only if we could afford it. Like it or lump it, we're an average Championship club in a league that for the last two seasons has included Hearts, Hibs and Rangers. 6th, as Paco has highlighted, is pretty much par for the course - not a reason to sack someone IMO.

Still, we are where we are and I hope we can push on from here. Vaughan and this elusive striker have a hell of a responsibility on their shoulders it seems.