Scotrail

[Left Back]

5 minutes ago, Empty It said:

Clearly you're getting emotional due to being inconvenienced by this but you're aiming your anger in all the wrong places

Not emotional or inconvenienced in the slightest mate.  I get on a Scotrail train a handful of times a year (if that).  Whether Scotrail trains run or not has sod all impact to me personally.

I’m not the one that’s all over the place with my viewpoint and trying to defend the indefensible.

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said:

One for the Quick Question Thread really, but more likely to get an answer here:

I'm getting an LNER down to England from Aberdeen; do I need to wait until Berwick to crack open the (by then warm) drinks, or is it an 'English' law train that allows a drink at any point?

It's fine. I got an LNER down to Inverkeithing a couple of weeks ago and the bar was serving to folk. As others have said, the ban is only Scotrail (and even then rarely enforced).

Edited May 26, 2022 by DA Baracus

[Guest]

Not emotional or inconvenienced in the slightest mate.  I get on a Scotrail train a handful of times a year (if that).  Whether Scotrail trains run or not has sod all impact to me personally.
I’m not the one that’s all over the place with my viewpoint and trying to defend the indefensible.

I'm not all over the place, the drivers aren't doing overtime due to the pay dispute which they are entirely within their rights to do, the issue lies with Scotrail not being able to provide a service without this overtime hence they're to blame for their poor management. That's been my point from the start.

[eez-eh]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I hope these well paid individuals pat themselves on the back and enjoy their pay rise and that it doesn't keep them awake at night worrying about which poor b*****d is going to be paying for it all.

Because someone is going to lose out to pay for this and as usual it'll be the people right at the bottom in things like reduced council services.

If the burden of giving train drivers a well below inflation wage rise falls on the poorest of society, then that will have been the result of a conscious, and unnecessary, decision by the government.

Making out that train drivers will be responsible if council schemes don’t get their bins emptied is quite the leap.

[Left Back]

32 minutes ago, Empty It said:

37 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Not emotional or inconvenienced in the slightest mate.  I get on a Scotrail train a handful of times a year (if that).  Whether Scotrail trains run or not has sod all impact to me personally.
I’m not the one that’s all over the place with my viewpoint and trying to defend the indefensible.

I'm not all over the place, the drivers aren't doing overtime due to the pay dispute which they are entirely within their rights to do, the issue lies with Scotrail not being able to provide a service without this overtime hence they're to blame for their poor management. That's been my point from the start.

So it isn’t an issue that drivers all change their working practices to get a pay rise and then change them back to how they’ve been happy to operate for years.

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s right that Scotrail/Scotgov have let this position arise.  If you go back through my posts I know I certainly haven’t said that.  The drivers are just as culpable for the current situation as Scotrail, Scotgov and the Union.

 They’re far from working class heroes that should be applauded, no matter how you try to spin it.  They’re leveraging the driver shortage to hold the country to ransom.  The shortage isn’t their fault per se but it has never bothered them until now and won’t bother them if they accept the offer that’s apparently on the table.

You do realise working class people in Scotland will have to fund this pay rise yeah?  What the train drivers get  has to be taken from somewhere else.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Left Back

[GiGi]

1 hour ago, Left Back said:

Ban is only on Scotrail.

The temporary ban IIRC. When's that getting lifted again?

[eez-eh]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Always someone else's fault.

Aren’t you the one blaming hypothetical cuts on a train driver salary increase…?

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

To understand that last sentence of yours, you'd need to understand that all of this funding including a lot of council funding comes from one big pot.

If that pot is reduced by greedy, entitled train drivers then there is less for central government to give to councils which means either service cuts or higher council tax.

There is no magic money tree I'm afraid.

I understand perfectly well, thanks. You can stop being a patronising w****r.

There are other ways that a government can find money to give public sector workers a below inflation pay rise besides cutting council services or raising council tax, you know. You appear to be struggling to understand that part.

Edited May 26, 2022 by eez-eh

[DA Baracus]

I must have missed the part where the train drivers had any say in Scotrail being nationalised, and also the part where this meant that they could never again have any say about their pay and other working conditions.

In addition I seem to have missed that they've all stopped paying tax as well.

[welshbairn]

Unbelievable stuff here about a few train drivers holding the country to ransom for a decent wage, stealing money from poor, while directors' salaries have never been such huge multiples of average salaries.  

Edited May 26, 2022 by welshbairn

[eez-eh]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Unbelievable stuff here about a few train drivers holding the country to ransom for a decent wage, stealing money from poor, while directors' salaries have never been such huge multiples of average salaries.  

Straight out the Tory playbook. Focus the ire elsewhere to take the attention away from the fat cats.

[RiffRaff]

9 hours ago, Hedgecutter said:

One for the Quick Question Thread really, but more likely to get an answer here:

I'm getting an LNER down to England from Aberdeen; do I need to wait until Berwick to crack open the (by then warm) drinks, or is it an 'English' law train that allows a drink at any point?

It's only Scotrail that have an alcohol ban.

Drink away Kind Sir

[Guest]

So it isn’t an issue that drivers all change their working practices to get a pay rise and then change them back to how they’ve been happy to operate for years.

Correct it isn't an issue because they're well within their rights to do so, if you have a problem with that blame the people who have left the system dependant on the overtime it's really that simple. Also this happy to do the overtime myth, on the odd occasion I've spoke to a train driver they've always complained about the amount of overtime they're expected and feel pressured into doing because if they don't do double their contracted hours they're "holding the country to ransom". If I was a train driver right now I'd be telling them to shove their OT up their arse aswell.

[Aufc]

Unbelievable stuff here about a few train drivers holding the country to ransom for a decent wage, stealing money from poor, while directors' salaries have never been such huge multiples of average salaries.  

I’m trying to work how what is happening here as not really well versed in what has been happening. So the train drivers have always been happy to do overtime to add to their already decent salary. However, they want a pay rise (higher than they have already been offered) so they have stopped the overtime which has crippled the train system. If they get the desired pay rise then they will be happy to go back to doing overtime. Is that right?

Hard not to see fault in both sides to be honest.

[scw1987]

I understand perfectly well, thanks. You can stop being a patronising w****r.

"Things That Are Unlikely to Happen" thread for this.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

Drivers don't want overtime. Put an end to overtime and tell Joe Public this is the new timetable, this is the new normal then go get some new drivers. Everybody happy.

Easy to find folk that will work for £50K a year. I'd love a decent wage of £50K a year. Wouldn't know what to do with all the money.

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Drivers don't want overtime.

They also don't want to work Sundays. They can't have everything.

[craigkillie]

Their current contracts don't include working overtime or Sundays, so surely they can have everything here?

The above post is fine in practice, but that new overtime-free, contract-based timetable would have no Sunday trains which doesn't really seem like a suitable public service.

The solution is to hire more drivers and to attempt to reach agreement on new contracts for the existing drivers which mean at least some are contracted for Sundays. It also means that this "no overtime" tactic can't just be used every few months.

[Todd_is_God]

14 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Their current contracts don't include working overtime or Sundays, so surely they can have everything here?

The above post is fine in practice, but that new overtime-free, contract-based timetable would have no Sunday trains which doesn't really seem like a suitable public service.

The solution is to hire more drivers and to attempt to reach agreement on new contracts for the existing drivers which mean at least some are contracted for Sundays.

The solution is to bring the railway into the 21st century, and hire new drivers on contracts that allow them to be rostered in a way that enables the railway, as far as required, to operate 24/7 without the need for overtime. 

Simply hiring new drivers on the same contracts as the current ones won't solve anything.

However, it isn't these mythical new drivers that are currently complaining about their working conditions. It is the ones who were happy with their terms and conditions when they accepted their nice salary offers, but now want to complain about them because they are after more money.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[Big Fifer]

6 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The solution is to bring the railway into the 21st century, and hire new drivers on contracts that allow them to be rostered in a way that enables the railway, as far as required, to operate 24/7 without the need for overtime. 

Simply hiring new drivers on the same contracts as the current ones won't solve anything.

Good luck with this. I was at LNER for around 4 years, and the "new roster" for the staff at the station was being negotiated when I joined and only finalised when I left. Everything takes an absolute age, not entirely aided by the fact the older guys, often higher up in the union, are very much of the "nothing must change" mindset. 

[DA Baracus]

Folk wonder why the Tories have been in power so long.

Just look at how easy it's been on this thread for their like.