Baxter Parp Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: I thought you purported to be some form of political activist but on this occasion you're content to defer to the superiority of legal and political decisions... Why don't you just admit that, as per usual, you've adopted a simplistic binary position and adversarial stance on a complex issue because you're motivated by demonising anyone who doesn't conform with your world view? Then when challenged your hardline stance does not stand up to scrutiny so you've taken the cowards defence. You're the extremist with a hardline stance, chum. Abortion has been legal since 1967. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Abortion really isn't a complex issue. Opposition to abortion is extremist, and tellingly, shouted loudest by bigoted men. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 We already established a number of pages back that you do not understand what the term "extremist" means. Leave the conversation to the grown ups. We established no such thing, you provided a definition which opposition to abortion clearly falls under. Are you opposed to abortion or do you just get your kicks trying to look edgy and against the grain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 You're the extremist with a hardline stance, chum. Abortion has been legal since 1967. The CK is obviously getting mistaken with his beloved Ireland 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: You think opposition and discomfort with the idea of abortion is a marginal view? Scottish social attitudes survey 2010 shows that only 50% of scots thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child with a strong chance of a defect. Only 29% thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child if the family couldn't afford it. So: 1. It is clearly not a "marginal" or "extreme" view to be deeply uncomfortable with abortion And 2. The differences in the responses also means that people's perceptions on whether it is wrong or not depends on the circumstances and motivations- so it's a complex issue The only people who seem to think in extreme terms or believe it's a simplistic issue is you and Baxter parp who seem to believe it should be a woman's prerogative to abort a child, regardless of age and regardless of the circumstances. It's hard to know where to start with this pish but suffice to say you can't prove how many people are "deeply uncomfortable" about something by quoting how many people are perfectly happy with it. That's not how stats or polls work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Just now, The Chlamydia Kid said: More than 1 in 3 believed it was always or almost always wrong to abort for financial reasons. 16% believed it was always or almost wrong to abort if there was a strong chance of defects. So. Minorities then. Glad that's sorted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 You think opposition and discomfort with the idea of abortion is a marginal view?Scottish social attitudes survey 2010 shows that only 50% of scots thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child with a strong chance of a defect. Only 29% thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child if the family couldn't afford it. So:1. It is clearly not a "marginal" or "extreme" view to be deeply uncomfortable with abortionAnd 2. The differences in the responses also means that people's perceptions on whether it is wrong or not depends on the circumstances and motivations- so it's a complex issueThe only people who seem to think in extreme terms or believe it's a simplistic issue is you and Baxter parp who seem to believe it should be a woman's prerogative to abort a child, regardless of age and regardless of the circumstances. It's a marginal and extreme view to believe abortion is always wrong, including in cases of rape and incest. Your statistics don't prove a thing. In British political terms it is a minority viewpoint, a dangerous one, and one that prevents him from being an appropriate candidate for Prime Minister. I notice you didn't actually answer whether you are opposed to abortion, why is that I wonder?It is quite clear that up until 24 weeks is acceptable regardless of circumstances if the woman chooses it, do you disagree with that? Do you agree that those who disagree with it are wrong and are unfit to be in a position where they could make abortion illegal? That is the issue here. A woman's body, a woman's choice. Under any reasonable definition of the world forcing someone to go through something as traumatic, painful and potentially dangerous as giving birth needlessly is extreme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I'd go with allowing postnatal abortion up to the age of 16. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: I'd go with allowing postnatal abortion up to the age of 16. Philip K Dick had a rubbish short story where the cut off point was where someone could understand algebra. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 7 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: As a point of information Germany introduced Gay Marriage 10 weeks ago Pictures like that turn my stomach. Kissing gingers in public should be a hanging offence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Jmothecat2 said: It's a marginal and extreme view to believe abortion is always wrong, including in cases of rape and incest. Your statistics don't prove a thing. In British political terms it is a minority viewpoint, a dangerous one, and one that prevents him from being an appropriate candidate for Prime Minister. I notice you didn't actually answer whether you are opposed to abortion, why is that I wonder?It is quite clear that up until 24 weeks is acceptable regardless of circumstances if the woman chooses it, do you disagree with that? Do you agree that those who disagree with it are wrong and are unfit to be in a position where they could make abortion illegal? That is the issue here. A woman's body, a woman's choice. Under any reasonable definition of the world forcing someone to go through something as traumatic, painful and potentially dangerous as giving birth needlessly is extreme. I can't say that sits comfortably with me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Don't have an abortion then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 "We can't have Boris as next party leader, he's too upper class! We need someone more down to earth that folk can relate to; how about Jacob Rees-Mogg?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 JRM's position that abortion is always unacceptable is clearly an extreme position, and an indefensible one IMO. Although, I don't think the view that life begins at conception is a completely insane opinion to have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 2 hours ago, NotThePars said: Don't have an abortion then. Why have a cut-off of 24 weeks when over a quarter survive at 22 weeks and 70% after 23 weeks, we'll fight to save some at under 24 weeks but we'll crush the brains out of an unwanted 24 week old or just leave it to die in a kidney dish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 "We can't have Boris as next party leader, he's too upper class! We need someone more down to earth that folk can relate to; how about Jacob Rees-Mogg?" Mental, eh? Give me Boris over Rees Mogg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 So, I looked up this fellow. 1. It seems like he just said that's his personal view. What could possibly be the problem with that? 2. I hate how these media types constantly pepper conservatives or religious politicians on their exact personal views of abortion, hoping to get some sort of slip up, but you never get similar grilling on the abortion views of feminist politicians. "So, do you favor half delivering a baby and sucking the brain out of it's head?" 3. I hope this guy is the next PM. I love when people live up to their stereotypes. Americans tend to think British people are either this: or this: with nobody inbetween. I'd like to keep my stereotypes that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: JRM's position that abortion is always unacceptable is clearly an extreme position, and an indefensible one IMO. Although, I don't think the view that life begins at conception is a completely insane opinion to have. Well, that would be the scientific opinion. That's why it's a bit of a controversial issue what to do with unwanted fetuses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Funny how most self-described Libertarians are actually quite in favour of dictating how other people live their lives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said: Funny how most self-described Libertarians are actually quite in favour of dictating how other people live their lives. If you're referring to me, I'm pro-choice but it's the least issue I could be bothered to care about when I vote. If you believe in the pure libertarian non-aggression principle you can make a decent ethical argument that abortion should be illegal in most cases. There's nothing contradictory about being libertarian and pro-life at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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