General Politics Thread

[Granny Danger]

44 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Rees Moggs views are because he is a c**t

 

22 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

 

Had to fix that for you.

Religion is not an excuse.

 

Fixed that for both of you.

BTW it is totally acceptable to be intolerant of someone who is intolerant based upon a narrow, biased view of the world.  The world would be a far better place if Jacob Rees-Mogg dropped down dead tomorrow.  Probably wouldn't lessen his chances of being elected Tory leader either.

PS has wee Ruthie expressed a view on the homophobic c**t yet?

[doulikefish]

Defending someone's right to hold an opinion is not "white knighting" them.

.

You made a total fukwit of yourself because you seen it was the tory rights darling without actually reading or seeing the interview to try and make yourself edgy as per normal

[Jambomo]

Is phasing out petrol and diesel cars for good really feasible by the way?

Seems to be the in thing just now around the world but we use electric cars at work and it's shite.

Do they actually want to totally eradicate petrol and diesel cars for good? I haven't looked into it too much and only seen the headline but surely not..?

The technology exists for much better electric and hybrid technology cars. I believe it's thought that generally it hasn't been advantageous financially for companies to invest in developing that technology for everyday use cars.

I think they are serious, at least France appears to be, in proposing a complete ban by 2030 (I think it's around that date anyway).

It could be the threat that's needed for the money men to move the into the alternative fuel industry and to move from creating concept cars to bringing forward the technology in a more practical way.

[Cerberus]

6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Is phasing out petrol and diesel cars for good really feasible by the way?

Seems to be the in thing just now around the world but we use electric cars at work and it's shite.

Do they actually want to totally eradicate petrol and diesel cars for good? I haven't looked into it too much and only seen the headline but surely not..?

The reason an electric car wouldn't suit me is the lack of charging stations in the city, the 4 - 8 hours it takes to charge and the shitty mileage.
Get the technology to where I can charge in 2 minutes and drive for 400 miles then I'm on-board.

 

[doulikefish]

The reason an electric car wouldn't suit me is the lack of charging stations in the city, the 4 - 8 hours it takes to charge and the shitty mileage.

Get the technology to where I can charge in 2 minutes and drive for 400 miles then I'm on-board.

 

Technology will acheive this in the time frame the various governments are hoping.The french government would not have made the announcement without consulting the big french car makers first

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

Based on what? Voting against gay marriage? So that's it. He's been labelled as an "ist" or "phobe" for not wholeheartedly conforming to some modern day liberal shibboleth so everything he ever says or does should be disregarded?

Interesting that you describe the concept of people being allowed to marry whoever they love, as a 'modern day liberal shibboleth'.

Many would describe Mogg's apparent adherance to religious doctrine as backward and intolerant, and a convenient excuse for covering up his prejudices. Maybe true, maybe not.

I wonder if his life is completely governed by religious doctrine, or like many intolerant 'Christians' he picks and chooses the parts which suit him. 

[JamieThomas]

I do doubt he's a homophobe, as I'd be utterly stunned if he hasn't taken a few dozen cocks in his time.

[welshbairn]

29 minutes ago, JamieThomas said:

I do doubt he's a homophobe, as I'd be utterly stunned if he hasn't taken a few dozen cocks in his time.

Only chance of getting a toasted muffin at Eton allegedly.

[bob the tank]

Good bunch of policies announced by the SNP yesterday, a few have caught my eye and I would hope and expect to see Scottish Labour MSPs vote with the government to get them over the line.

I think the SNP have suffered somewhat of late in the attempt not to put people off Indy. Now that Sturgeon sees that the next Indy ref (if there is one) won't be in the immediate future her tactics have changed. She and the SNP have been facing two types of criticism which I think have landed and harmed them. First is the accusation that she is too focused on Indy and not focused on 'the day job'. This raft of policy ideas addresses that as they are visible policies that people will see and feel the impact of. The second criticism is the 'centrist' jibes thrown at them from the now very left-wing Labour Party. Previously the SNP could attack Labour in pretty much the same way Labour are now attacking the SNP. The SNP were never as left-wing as they made themselves seem, they've always favoured policies that look left-wing but don't harm middle class people and do little to really address poverty and inequality. Scraping the public sector pay freeze is a policy a left-wing party should be doing and raising taxes to pay for it is entirely appropriate. Yes they should have done it before now, yes they shouldn't just be doing it because of Labour attacks, but they are doing it and when they are attacked by us for not being left wing they have a very powerful policy to wave as an example of their left-wing credentials. Enough to win back the people attracted by Corbyn? Time will tell, but certainly the sort of policies people like me, on the moderate left, will be pleased to see.

Oh come on now. Slab will never work with the SNP or even back a great policy introduced by them. They have nothing but pure hatred ever since the SNP exposed the entitlement, the cronyism and the total disregard of Scotland's needs by the "people's party". All labour want is the better together trough, and no way you will convince me otherwise, as I've seen their plundering of the system my whole life. SNP are working for the country, the British labour party in Scotland is working for their elected officials as always. A certain wall springs to mind, and something about contracts, same old same old.

[Alan Stubbs]

5 hours ago, Jmothecat2 said:

Good bunch of policies announced by the SNP yesterday, a few have caught my eye and I would hope and expect to see Scottish Labour MSPs vote with the government to get them over the line.

I think the SNP have suffered somewhat of late in the attempt not to put people off Indy. Now that Sturgeon sees that the next Indy ref (if there is one) won't be in the immediate future her tactics have changed. She and the SNP have been facing two types of criticism which I think have landed and harmed them. First is the accusation that she is too focused on Indy and not focused on 'the day job'. This raft of policy ideas addresses that as they are visible policies that people will see and feel the impact of. The second criticism is the 'centrist' jibes thrown at them from the now very left-wing Labour Party. Previously the SNP could attack Labour in pretty much the same way Labour are now attacking the SNP. The SNP were never as left-wing as they made themselves seem, they've always favoured policies that look left-wing but don't harm middle class people and do little to really address poverty and inequality. Scraping the public sector pay freeze is a policy a left-wing party should be doing and raising taxes to pay for it is entirely appropriate. Yes they should have done it before now, yes they shouldn't just be doing it because of Labour attacks, but they are doing it and when they are attacked by us for not being left wing they have a very powerful policy to wave as an example of their left-wing credentials. Enough to win back the people attracted by Corbyn? Time will tell, but certainly the sort of policies people like me, on the moderate left, will be pleased to see.

Apart the slight irritation of you describing yourself as "moderate left" in every second post, a fair enough summary. It strikes a good balance for me. Lots of stuff for left-wing voters to like but also some proactive ideas about improving Scotland's economy.

As someone who now works in the public sector, I'm not sure I'd be scrapping the pay freeze across the board. For certain bands of workers in areas like health and social care, absolutely increase their wages. Not too much poverty going on amongst my colleagues though, you'd be hard pushed to find a week where someone from the office isn't abroad on holiday. I'd guess about 5% of them/us could match their wage elsewhere, so whilst folk like that are pretty comfortable, I'd rather see certain areas targeted for new jobs and pay increases.

Edit: And yes, Bob's right - Labour will support f**k all SNP puts in front of them.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Alan Stubbs

[Jmothecat2]

Apart the slight irritation of you describing yourself as "moderate left" in every second post, a fair enough summary. It strikes a good balance for me. Lots of stuff for left-wing voters to like but also some proactive ideas about improving Scotland's economy.

As someone who now works in the public sector, I'm not sure I'd be scrapping the pay freeze across the board. For certain bands of workers in areas like health and social care, absolutely increase their wages. Not too much poverty going on amongst my colleagues though, you'd be hard pushed to find a week where someone from the office isn't abroad on holiday. I'd guess about 5% of them/us could match their wage elsewhere, so whilst folk like that are pretty comfortable, I'd rather see certain areas targeted for new jobs and pay increases.

 

As someone on the moderate left I'm very much in favour of scrapping the public sector pay freeze.

[The Chlamydia Kid]

 

Anyone who doesn't agree with abortion is an extremist nutjob, who believes women with unwanted features should be forced to give birth needlessly.

 

You clearly do not understand what an extremist is. To be Extreme means that something lies far removed from the ordinary or average.

 

Being anti abortion is not an opinion or mindset which is far removed from the ordinary viewpoint- it is pretty mainstream and commonly held.

 

You clearly wish to, once again, attach a negative label and demonise a viewpoint because you do not agree with it.

 

In fact in many societies and cultures across the world, and many periods of history to hold the view that individuals should be free to abort unborn children may be considered "extreme". However, you and most others on here are so arrogant as to believe that after hundreds of thousands of years of human development that you have been lucky enough to have been born into the one society and age that has managed to crack all the world's moral conundrums.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

12 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

 

In the loosest sense of the word and in the least offensive type of homophobia that exists. However, unfortunately in the blasé and reckless way you and others on here like to throw "phobia" and "ists" allegations about you utterly demean and undermine the seriousness of such attitudes by tarring someone who opposes gay marriage as no different to someone who wants to swing black people from trees.

 

Often you find that people who hide behind the mantra of being opposed to gay marriage because of their 'Christian values' are simply people who are opposed to gays. Full stop.

There's a very valid point in questioning someone in power such as Rees-Mogg, further on this. Is he opposed to birth outside wedlock ? People having sex while not being married ?

Does he adhere to other elements of Christian doctrine...such as not eating pork, or shellfish, or shunning men not circumcised or planting different seeds in a field or wearing clothes of different cloth or any other of the thousands of forbidden actions that the bible imposes on Christians ?

Or is it that he simply picks and chooses which elements of Christian doctrine he believes in and which happen to suit his prejudices ?

Rees-Mogg opened the door to this. He's either a Christian, or he's not. He's either a man of principle, or a narrow-minded hypocrite.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Bob Mahelp

[Jmothecat2]

 
You clearly do not understand what an extremist is. To be Extreme means that something lies far removed from the ordinary or average.
 
Being anti abortion is not an opinion or mindset which is far removed from the ordinary viewpoint- it is pretty mainstream and commonly held.
 
You clearly wish to, once again, attach a negative label and demonise a viewpoint because you do not agree with it.
 
In fact in many societies and cultures across the world, and many periods of history to hold the view that individuals should be free to abort unborn children may be considered "extreme". However, you and most others on here are so arrogant as to believe that after hundreds of thousands of years of human development that you have been lucky enough to have been born into the one society and age that has managed to crack all the world's moral conundrums.

In our society being opposed to abortion in cases of rape is far removed from the ordinary viewpoint. You've just proved my argument. Thanks.

[Jmothecat2]

In the loosest sense of the word and in the least offensive type of homophobia that exists. However, unfortunately in the blasé and reckless way you and others on here like to throw "phobia" and "ists" allegations about you utterly demean and undermine the seriousness of such attitudes by tarring someone who opposes gay marriage as no different to someone who wants to swing black people from trees.

I think anyone who wishes to prevent two people who love each other marrying purely because you disagree with their lifestyles as abhorrent and disgusting. f**k them.

[Jmothecat2]

We were discussing abortion in general not abortion as a result of rape. Stop changing the goalposts half way through.

We were talking about Rees-Mogg's views.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

 

I highly doubt he told voters on the campaign trail that he intended to represent his personal religious views rather than those of his constituents.

 

Not just that, there's a fair chance that he could be the next Prime Minister. We would then have a religious fundamentalist...elected only by the good people of north-east Somerset....taking decisions for all of us. 

[strichener]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

 

I highly doubt he told voters on the campaign trail that he intended to represent his personal religious views rather than those of his constituents.

The notion that a single representative can represent the wide variety of views found in their constituency is just not possible.  I am pretty sure that if he was asked about these views then he would have been equally honest with his constituents.  Personally, I cannot see any circumstances where I would vote for a person who was against abortion, believes in transubstantiation and prayed to a higher authority but there are certainly plenty in this area where it is an important part of their lives. 

[pandarilla]

I get the whole argument for abortion as it's a pretty grey issue in many aspects and the whole definition of life thing is difficult. I couldn't accept somebody who would actively discriminate against others though.

Reading the last few pages of this thread you'd think it was the most black and white issue ever.

The complete shutting down of any argument or debate on this issue is actually quite alarming (and I'm on the side of the argument that's doing it).

Rees mogg has so far been blamed for bringing this on himself (he answered a question openly and honestly, he did not go looking for this but he could've avoided it. I presume that we therefore want our politicians to avoid answering questions).

He's a Roman Catholic and he is doing anything but forcing his ideas on anyone. He made that clear in the interview.

He was also supposedly in favour of 'forced impregnation'. Obviously that's ludicrous - but the mob mentality on here were too busy piling on.

[NotThePars]

If he isn't forcing his ideas on anyone then maybe he shouldn't vote on these issues considering he has an ability to literally enshrine his view in law.