General Politics Thread

[Baxter Parp]

5 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

I know it is against the law. Should it be?

I don't pretend to be a scientist or a religious nutter. The law is what it is.  Maybe you should ask some women.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Baxter Parp

[Blootoon87]

I think JRM's opinions are influenced by more than his religion.

Being a Catholic does not make you a bigot - hell if we are going to apply that standard then most religious people would be classed as bigots.

Religious people are bigots.

[Baxter Parp]

8 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

 

I thought you purported to be some form of political activist but on this occasion you're content to defer to the superiority of legal and political decisions...

 

Why don't you just admit that, as per usual, you've adopted a simplistic binary position and adversarial stance on a complex issue because you're motivated by demonising anyone who doesn't conform with your world view?

 

Then when challenged your hardline stance does not stand up to scrutiny so you've taken the cowards defence.

You're the extremist with a hardline stance, chum.  Abortion has been legal since 1967.

[Jmothecat2]

Abortion really isn't a complex issue. Opposition to abortion is extremist, and tellingly, shouted loudest by bigoted men.

[Jmothecat2]

We already established a number of pages back that you do not understand what the term "extremist" means. Leave the conversation to the grown ups.

We established no such thing, you provided a definition which opposition to abortion clearly falls under. Are you opposed to abortion or do you just get your kicks trying to look edgy and against the grain?

[John Lambies Doos]

You're the extremist with a hardline stance, chum.  Abortion has been legal since 1967.

The CK is obviously getting mistaken with his beloved Ireland

[Baxter Parp]

6 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

 

 

You think opposition and discomfort with the idea of abortion is a marginal view?

Scottish social attitudes survey 2010 shows that only 50% of scots thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child with a strong chance of a defect.

Only 29% thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child if the family couldn't afford it.

So:
1. It is clearly not a "marginal" or "extreme" view to be deeply uncomfortable with abortion

And

2. The differences in the responses also means that people's perceptions on whether it is wrong or not depends on the circumstances and motivations- so it's a complex issue

The only people who seem to think in extreme terms or believe it's a simplistic issue is you and Baxter parp who seem to believe it should be a woman's prerogative to abort a child, regardless of age and regardless of the circumstances.

 

It's hard to know where to start with this pish but suffice to say you can't prove how many people are "deeply uncomfortable" about something by quoting how many people are perfectly happy with it.  That's not how stats or polls work.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, The Chlamydia Kid said:

 

 

More than 1 in 3 believed it was always or almost always wrong to abort for financial reasons. 16% believed it was always or almost wrong to abort if there was a strong chance of defects.

 

So.  Minorities then.  Glad that's sorted.

[Jmothecat2]

You think opposition and discomfort with the idea of abortion is a marginal view?

Scottish social attitudes survey 2010 shows that only 50% of scots thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child with a strong chance of a defect.

Only 29% thought it "wasn't wrong at all" to abort a child if the family couldn't afford it.

So:
1. It is clearly not a "marginal" or "extreme" view to be deeply uncomfortable with abortion

And

2. The differences in the responses also means that people's perceptions on whether it is wrong or not depends on the circumstances and motivations- so it's a complex issue

The only people who seem to think in extreme terms or believe it's a simplistic issue is you and Baxter parp who seem to believe it should be a woman's prerogative to abort a child, regardless of age and regardless of the circumstances.

It's a marginal and extreme view to believe abortion is always wrong, including in cases of rape and incest. Your statistics don't prove a thing. In British political terms it is a minority viewpoint, a dangerous one, and one that prevents him from being an appropriate candidate for Prime Minister. I notice you didn't actually answer whether you are opposed to abortion, why is that I wonder?

It is quite clear that up until 24 weeks is acceptable regardless of circumstances if the woman chooses it, do you disagree with that? Do you agree that those who disagree with it are wrong and are unfit to be in a position where they could make abortion illegal? That is the issue here. A woman's body, a woman's choice. Under any reasonable definition of the world forcing someone to go through something as traumatic, painful and potentially dangerous as giving birth needlessly is extreme.

[welshbairn]

I'd go with allowing postnatal abortion up to the age of 16.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I'd go with allowing postnatal abortion up to the age of 16.

 

Philip K Dick had a rubbish short story where the cut off point was where someone could understand algebra. 

[ayrmad]

7 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

As a point of information Germany introduced Gay Marriage 10 weeks ago

 

Pictures like that turn my stomach.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kissing gingers in public should be a hanging offence.

[ayrmad]

2 hours ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

It's a marginal and extreme view to believe abortion is always wrong, including in cases of rape and incest. Your statistics don't prove a thing. In British political terms it is a minority viewpoint, a dangerous one, and one that prevents him from being an appropriate candidate for Prime Minister. I notice you didn't actually answer whether you are opposed to abortion, why is that I wonder?

It is quite clear that up until 24 weeks is acceptable regardless of circumstances if the woman chooses it, do you disagree with that? Do you agree that those who disagree with it are wrong and are unfit to be in a position where they could make abortion illegal? That is the issue here. A woman's body, a woman's choice. Under any reasonable definition of the world forcing someone to go through something as traumatic, painful and potentially dangerous as giving birth needlessly is extreme.

 

I can't say that sits comfortably with me.

[NotThePars]

Don't have an abortion then.

[Granny Danger]

"We can't have Boris as next party leader, he's too upper class!  We need someone more down to earth that folk can relate to; how about Jacob Rees-Mogg?"

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

JRM's position that abortion is always unacceptable is clearly an extreme position, and an indefensible one IMO. Although,  I don't think the view that life begins at conception is a completely insane opinion to have.

 

[ayrmad]

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Don't have an abortion then.

Why have a cut-off of 24 weeks when over a quarter survive at 22 weeks and 70% after 23 weeks, we'll fight to save some at under 24 weeks but we'll crush the brains out of an unwanted 24 week old or just leave it to die in a kidney dish.

[Scary Bear]

"We can't have Boris as next party leader, he's too upper class!  We need someone more down to earth that folk can relate to; how about Jacob Rees-Mogg?"

Mental, eh? Give me Boris over Rees Mogg

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

So, I looked up this fellow.

1. It seems like he just said that's his personal view. What could possibly be the problem with that?

2. I hate how these media types constantly pepper conservatives or religious politicians on their exact personal views of abortion, hoping to get some sort of slip up, but you never get similar grilling on the abortion views of feminist politicians. "So, do you favor half delivering a baby and sucking the brain out of it's head?"

3. I hope this guy is the next PM. I love when people live up to their stereotypes. Americans tend to think British people are either this:

or this:

with nobody inbetween. 

I'd like to keep my stereotypes that way.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

18 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

JRM's position that abortion is always unacceptable is clearly an extreme position, and an indefensible one IMO. Although,  I don't think the view that life begins at conception is a completely insane opinion to have.

 

Well, that would be the scientific opinion. That's why it's a bit of a controversial issue what to do with unwanted fetuses.