General Politics Thread

[DrewDon]

'Minimum alcohol pricing, you say?'

[Miguel Sanchez]

5 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

 

Neither is adding an extra few quid on to a bottle. Look at the cost of smoking. How many people try giving that up and fail? People will become addicted regardless of costs.

I have a feeling that a lot of SNP supporters deep down know that this is a nonsense but don’t want to be critical.


 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/20/number-of-uk-smokers-falls-to-lowest-level

The number of smokers in England has fallen to its lowest level, with just one in six adults now lighting up, according to new official figures, which also show a recent collapse in sales of cigarettes.

Just 16.9% of adults in England now smoke, according to the latest data from Public Health England. Its health experts also revealed that widespread use of e-cigarettes, nicotine patches and gum helped 500,000 smokers last year kick the habit – the highest number on record.

The statistics show that, bar two small blips, smoking prevalence has declined continuously and dramatically over the past 50 years by about two-thirds. In 1974, over 50% of men in Britain were smokers; that had fallen to just 19.1% in England in 2015. Similarly, just over 40% of women smoked back then; last year it was only 14.9%.

There are now just 7.2 million adults in England who smoke. They are far outnumbered by 14.6 million ex-smokers. It is the first time that under 17% of the population are smokers and is down from the 19.3% seen as recently as 2012.

Health campaigners said that smoking’s continuing fall in popularity is due to a combination of tough measures, such as price rises and the introduction of plain packaging, and mass media campaigns urging people to quit.

[Jmothecat2]

It doesn't help your argument when you cite an urban myth as your example of government excess. 

It's not an urban myth, it's the law.

From the Scottish government website:

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0041/00412868.pdf

[1320Lichtie]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/20/number-of-uk-smokers-falls-to-lowest-level
The number of smokers in England has fallen to its lowest level, with just one in six adults now lighting up, according to new official figures, which also show a recent collapse in sales of cigarettes.
Just 16.9% of adults in England now smoke, according to the latest data from Public Health England. Its health experts also revealed that widespread use of e-cigarettes, nicotine patches and gum helped 500,000 smokers last year kick the habit – the highest number on record.
The statistics show that, bar two small blips, smoking prevalence has declined continuously and dramatically over the past 50 years by about two-thirds. In 1974, over 50% of men in Britain were smokers; that had fallen to just 19.1% in England in 2015. Similarly, just over 40% of women smoked back then; last year it was only 14.9%.
There are now just 7.2 million adults in England who smoke. They are far outnumbered by 14.6 million ex-smokers. It is the first time that under 17% of the population are smokers and is down from the 19.3% seen as recently as 2012.
Health campaigners said that smoking’s continuing fall in popularity is due to a combination of tough measures, such as price rises and the introduction of plain packaging, and mass media campaigns urging people to quit.

The smoking ban was absolutely brilliant and I agree with it 100 percent.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Just now, 1320Lichtie said:

 

 

The smoking ban was absolutely brilliant and I agree with it 100 percent.
 

 

Okay.

You seemed to be drawing an equivalence between the increasing cost of/warning against smoking and its supposed lack of effect on the number of smokers and the impending/intended impact of the alcohol pricing. The numbers, for smokers, suggest this is spectacularly not the case.

[1320Lichtie]

Okay.
You seemed to be drawing an equivalence between the increasing cost of/warning against smoking and its supposed lack of effect on the number of smokers and the impending/intended impact of the alcohol pricing. The numbers, for smokers, suggest this is spectacularly not the case.

No I was trying to say that even though smoking is extortionate people who are addicted to it or enjoy it will still pay they high costs to get their fix.

I think smoking is slightly different too, you’ve got patches, electronic cigarettes, vaping and it is generally seen as something a lot worse than drinking health wise. Also the fact smokers now have to make an effort and go out of their way to enjoy a cigarette now.

Think vaping is now the new fad with youngsters, see it a lot, so I expect the number of smokers to keep falling year after year.

[Scary Bear]

 
Aye, it's a sensible move from a health perspective.
But ‘Scotland leading the World’ is a bit over the top no? It's hardly a major medical breakthrough of scientific importance to bang a few quid on a bottle of park bench pickle is it?
It's the toe curling cringing parochialism that dresses up everything the Scottish Government says and does.
 
'World Leaders' in tackling alcohol abuse problems of our own making!? Hmmmm

I haven't seen any interviews from politicians on the subject. I'll hold fire on any criticism until I see them.

I can see why they're pleased about finally getting the policy implemented. It's not really the current government's fault that Scotland has a long standing problem with alcohol. All they're doing is having a first stab at making a slight difference to that problem. Not making a big thing of it would be a bit strange after such a long fight to get the go ahead for minimum pricing.

[RedRob72]

I haven't seen any interviews from politicians on the subject. I'll hold fire on any criticism until I see them.

I can see why they're pleased about finally getting the policy implemented. It's not really the current government's fault that Scotland has a long standing problem with alcohol. All they're doing is having a first stab at making a slight difference to that problem. Not making a big thing of it would be a bit strange after such a long fight to get the go ahead for minimum pricing.

Fair do’s!

[lichtgilphead]

28 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

It's not an urban myth, it's the law.

From the Scottish government website:

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0041/00412868.pdf

 

Firstly, the document you've cited is just a guidance document, not the law.

Secondly, to save me wading through the whole thing, can you point out where it says a shop assistant can't answer a legitimate request for information from a potential customer?

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

 

I haven't seen any interviews from politicians on the subject. I'll hold fire on any criticism until I see them.

I can see why they're pleased about finally getting the policy implemented. It's not really the current government's fault that Scotland has a long standing problem with alcohol. All they're doing is having a first stab at making a slight difference to that problem. Not making a big thing of it would be a bit strange after such a long fight to get the go ahead for minimum pricing.

 

Thing that makes me worry is the two ways it could go.

1. It works, and they decide it would work even better if they raise the minimum further.

2. It doesn't work, so they decide to raise the minimum to see if that works.

I don't think 50p a unit will change behaviour significantly, that's probably why they chose it. Bet it will be closer to a pound in 5 years.

[Scary Bear]

Thing that makes me worry is the two ways it could go.
1. It works, and they decide it would work even better if they raise the minimum further.
2. It doesn't work, so they decide to raise the minimum to see if that works.
I don't think 50p a unit will change behaviour significantly, that's probably why they chose it. Bet it will be closer to a pound in 5 years.

The 50p a unit starter was obviously a 'don't scare the drinkers, they have the vote' thing. I could see it going up if it works.

They said the policy would expire in 6 years unless it was renewed. Wonder if it'll be renewed? I'm assuming it will be. I assume the 6 years start from now?

[Red 'N Yellow]

I grew up in a single parent household with an alcoholic mother and I'm not sure that this would've stopped the drinking. It probably would've made it even more difficult to keep the lecky on tbh.

I was in a similar situation. My mum would starve herself to be able to afford more drink, hiking the price up wouldn’t have stopped her.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd String]

Waitrose definitely has the best booze section (and come to think of it every other section) of any of the major super markets.

Definitely a Red Tory.

[Glen Sannox]

I was in a similar situation. My mum would starve herself to be able to afford more drink, hiking the price up wouldn’t have stopped her.

And sadly they never consult people like yourself who have had that experience.

It doesn’t sit well with their “gimmick” policies.

[NotThePars]

 
Aye, it's a sensible move from a health perspective.
But ‘Scotland leading the World’ is a bit over the top no? It's hardly a major medical breakthrough of scientific importance to bang a few quid on a bottle of park bench pickle is it?
It's the toe curling cringing parochialism that dresses up everything the Scottish Government says and does.
 
'World Leaders' in tackling alcohol abuse problems of our own making!? Hmmmm

There's no difference here from what the UK, USA or indeed anyone does. Suggesting small minded parochialism clouding a parliament is unique to Scotland is baffling and driven by an agenda IMO.

[PB 4.2]

1 hour ago, Red 'N Yellow said:

I was in a similar situation. My mum would starve herself to be able to afford more drink, hiking the price up wouldn’t have stopped her.

Rather obviously it would have.   

Make it £5000 per unit and alcohol sales will completely stop.    

The price/consumption thing as beyond obvious.   She'd still be an alcoholic, but she's be able to afford less which would improve her sober time.  

[PB 4.2]

6 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

 

And sadly they never consult people like yourself who have had that experience.

It doesn’t sit well with their “gimmick” policies.

 

Absolutely nobody cares what you think.  

[EH75]

5 minutes ago, PB 4.2 said:

Make it £5000 per unit and alcohol sales will completely stop.   

Alcohol thefts would go through the roof though. And c***s distilling whisky in bathtubs in their spare room. 

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, EH75 said:

Alcohol thefts would go through the roof though. And c***s distilling whisky in bathtubs in their spare room. 

Aye, worked great in America during the Prohibition. And in Scottish jails now from what I hear.

[AUFC90]

The thing i have a gripe with regarding those smoking figures is that vaping is still smoking. If you're addicted to nicotine you are still a smoker. Unless vapers were included in the figures ?