General Politics Thread

[HaikuHibee]

Do you have a proper reference for that? I'd genuinely be interested in that interpretation.

 

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-Balfour-betrayal-How-the-British-Empire-failed-Zionism-330440

 

 

 

In what would prove to be the British policy in years to come, the recognition of Zionist aspirations was tempered by England’s fear of alienating the Arab world.

 

 

Yet, even in its final version the Balfour Declaration was a milestone in the history of Zionism. For the first time, a great power in Europe had recognized the goals of the Zionist movement. After the First World War, the League of Nations made the Balfour Declaration part of its mandate.

As Professor Alan Dershowitz convincingly argues in The Case for Israel (2003), the British declaration became “a matter of binding international law.â€

The Balfour Declaration was the first step in the legitimizing by the international community of the Zionist project to revive a Jewish state in Eretz Yisrael.

Edited May 1, 2016 by HaikuHibee

[Savage Henry]

Yes but the point is also you can't go assigning meanings and objectives to people's comments based on your interpretation of them either.

I totally agree. It happens all the time. And as a result, it beholds the speaker to be very specific (sorry!). The vagaries of the topic are manipulated by both sides. The "but that isn't what he/she/I meant" isn't sufficient. Edited May 1, 2016 by Savage Henry

[Peppino Impastato]

I totally agree. It happens all the time. And as a result, it be holds the speaker to be very specific (sorry!). The vagaries of the topic are manipulated by both sides. The "but that isn't what he/she/I meant" isn't sufficient.

 

Exactly, otherwise you could twist almost anyone's words on the subject to mean anything you want.  

 

As far as the whole thing goes btw, the West Bank is gone, the Palestinians will never, ever, ever, ever get that back.  Its impossible, Israel only even agreed to begin talks in the 90's when they finally had established that the West Bank would be theirs forever and it would be impossible to get back.  The offer to Arafat was never designed to succeed either.

 

People need to understand that is the reality of the situation now and we in the West are largely responsible for what is the greatest injustices in human history.

[welshbairn]

Exactly, otherwise you could twist almost anyone's words on the subject to mean anything you want.  

 

As far as the whole thing goes btw, the West Bank is gone, the Palestinians will never, ever, ever, ever get that back.  Its impossible, Israel only even agreed to begin talks in the 90's when they finally had established that the West Bank would be theirs forever and it would be impossible to get back.  The offer to Arafat was never designed to succeed either.

 

People need to understand that is the reality of the situation now and we in the West are largely responsible for what is the greatest injustices in human history.

 

The only reason Israel haven't registered their de facto ownership of the West Bank is that they'd have to give up their pretence of being a democracy. A majority Arab Israel? Aye right. So they slowly build settlements and roads to isolate Arab villages and populate the settlements mainly with newly arrived Americans, (the Russians seem to prefer city life|). Labour and Likud  have carried out the exact same policy for decades.

[THE KING]

Shock news, Zionists try to save Jewish lives! You are someone I would label an anti semite.

Eh, hod on so do you agree that the Zionist had an agreement with the Nazis to "save Jewish lives"? Because that's what Ken Livingstones saying?

Yes or no thanks

  

What this proves is that the Nazis allowed some Jews to flee, but only if they left to Palestine, and they get to keep some of the proceeds of selling all the property that the Third Reich stole from them to rebuild their lives.That's hardly supporting the creation of a Jewish state.

Yip , and again (in your own words) "it proves Nazis allowed some Jews to flee" so you agree Zionist had an agreement with the Nazis?

And again for the Fukin umpteenth time, no one is saying or implying the Nazis supported a Jewish state ffs , how many times does that need to be repeated?!

[THE KING]

Oh how cute , a special coin minted to celebrate the historic achievement of the Nazi/Zionst agreement to get German Jews to Palestine/Israel

[Benjamin_Nevis]

f**k me. All we need now is lol@celtic posting about nazi belt buckles

[Peppino Impastato]

The only reason Israel haven't registered their de facto ownership of the West Bank is that they'd have to give up their pretence of being a democracy. A majority Arab Israel? Aye right. So they slowly build settlements and roads to isolate Arab villages and populate the settlements mainly with newly arrived Americans, (the Russians seem to prefer city life|). Labour and Likud  have carried out the exact same policy for decades.

 

Very true, but self-determination in the settlements would dictate they should remain Israeli anyway.  Sorry only ribbing you but the point stands.

 

The West Bank is gone, there is nowhere for a viable Palestinian state now just a tiny wee slither of land in Gaza and that's it.

[Granny Danger]

I think it's brave of SLab to have their whole election broadcast feature nothing else but the least popular party leader in Scotland.

They would have just been better showing a basket of kittens.

[Antlion]

I think it's brave of SLab to have their whole election broadcast feature nothing else but the least popular party leader in Scotland.

They would have just been better showing a basket of kittens.

Slab think "steely young" Kez is their best asset. Let that sink in.

[jmothecat]

She really doesn't inspire confidence. She's got the same problem Ed Miliband had but worse, seems like a nice enough person but you wouldn't want to see them with any real power.

[Antlion]

She really doesn't inspire confidence. She's got the same problem Ed Miliband had but worse, seems like a nice enough person but you wouldn't want to see them with any real power.

Whether she's personally nice or not, it strikes me that slab putting her forward as a genuine candidate for Scotland's FM shows their utter contempt for the place (especially after she claimed she didn't even want the job). Of course, that's probably unfair, as I doubt they have anyone better. Still, their hollow claims about how much she strikes a chord with the young, how steely she is, and how much she is in charge now (giving the lie to Murphy's claims that the office manager was in charge last year) gets right on my balls.

[Mr Rational]

[Granny Danger]

Slab think "steely young" Kez is their best asset. Let that sink in.

Maybe she IS their best asset. Let that sink in.

[DrewDon]

The logic behind focusing the PEB on Dugdale will be because the polls show that many people simply don't know who she is - or, perhaps more importantly, haven't formed any strong opinion of her. I thought it was Scottish Labour's best promotional video in quite some time, but that's not saying very much. 

Jenny Marra is Scottish Labour's best asset, IMO. She's more authoritative, compelling and, yes, steely than Dugdale. She's seemingly more divisive (see: ambitious) within the Party than Dugdale, but I imagine she would seek nomination if another contest arose in the near future.

It's very difficult to envisage Dugdale as First Minister (not that she should be worrying about this in the near future - or anytime in the future). As alluded to above, it's a similar image problem to the one that faced Miliband. It does matter at the ballot box - regardless of whether you're playing for first, second or third. Sturgeon doesn't have that problem, but Dugdale definitely does. Davidson doesn't really has that problem anymore, either. 

[Antlion]

Isn't being "ambitious" within slab like one of Snow White's dwarves striving to be the tallest because it means he gets to polish her crystal coffin?

[dogmc]

The logic behind focusing the PEB on Dugdale will be because the polls show that many people simply don't know who she is - or, perhaps more importantly, haven't formed any strong opinion of her. I thought it was Scottish Labour's best promotional video in quite some time, but that's not saying very much.

Jenny Marra is Scottish Labour's best asset, IMO. She's more authoritative, compelling and, yes, steely than Dugdale. She's seemingly more divisive (see: ambitious) within the Party than Dugdale, but I imagine she would seek nomination if another contest arose in the near future.

It's very difficult to envisage Dugdale as First Minister (not that she should be worrying about this in the near future - or anytime in the future). As alluded to above, it's a similar image problem to the one that faced Miliband. It does matter at the ballot box - regardless of whether you're playing for first, second or third. Sturgeon doesn't have that problem, but Dugdale definitely does. Davidson doesn't really has that problem anymore, either.

Im guessing that strategy for the peb came about before the interview Dugdale did with Ponsonby. Shes dead in the water now. I fully expect tories to be second and the bbc / tabloids to declare that Scotland has rejected forever a 2nd referendum.

[bob the tank]

Oor Nigel getting the daily politics gig again today. Every "national" political programme since the middle of last week has featured el farage

[Antlion]

Oor Nigel getting the daily politics gig again today. Every "national" political programme since the middle of last week has featured el farage

For the full hour too. Elections are coming up: the Beeb needs to promote its blue-eyed boy and his party. I mean they've ploughed enough taxpayers' money into giving him his own dressing room, makeup girl and green room, after all.

[Granny Danger]

A suggestion on the news tonight that there's going to be a challenge to Corbyn's leadership after the EU referendum.

If it fails what will the rebels do?

Hopefully Corbyn will come down hard on them.