Striking Options

[Gordopolis]

Martin never scored a hat-trick against Luxembourg's under 21 team though, did he?

Clearly you're bitter about some other argument where the guy held that up as an example.

[Deeboy]

16 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Clearly you're bitter about some other argument where the guy held that up as an example.

Yes, clearly I'm bitter part of the argument for getting Rhodes in was he'd been seen to score a hat trick for Scotland. Amazingly ignoring the fact it was against Luxembourg. At under 21's. 

The same as Rhodes is 'EPL level' now, supposedly. Yet Fletcher whilst actually playing in the EPL was just lucky he was at a shit squad. That's the same 'EPL level' Rhodes who in Middlesbrough's biggest game of the season was dropped to the bench with those people making up excuses from he was injured to they were set up for a draw ( ). Now Scotland have to change the set up to shoe horn Rhodes in (which you've also conveniently completely ignored my request for you to name the formation and line up).

All you read on here is folk saying Rhodes should start, when asked what he'll bring the answer 90% of the time is - 'Goals'.

Newsflash - naw.

EDIT : see your very own reply to RG. Martin has a better conversion rate? "Marginally, yes". 

[RandomGuy.]

32 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

 

A better conversion rate? Marginally yes, but less goals. League performance-wise they're not too far apart.
At a worse side? I'd say Derby are clearly a stronger side than Blackburn given their league positions (in or around the playoffs while bburn were floundering) in recent years.
Half the playing time? Where are you getting that stat? You might well be right (like the weight thing), but they both have the same number of starts and a smattering of subs apps, so I doubt it's less than half.

Then add the fact Rhodes is EPL level now. It's hard to understand the insistence to freeze him out of the squad.
And FWIW I don't see Martin and Rhodes as mutually exclusive. I just don't get the continual selection of Martin and continual ignoring of Rhodes.

 

The half the time comment is based on both qualifiers and friendlies, heres the breakdown...

Qualifiers

Rhodes - 7 games - 1 start - 190 minutes - 0 goals

Martin - 5 games - 1 start - 140 minutes - 1 goal

 

Friendlies

Rhodes - 6 games - 2 starts - 237 minutes - 3 goals

Martin - 3 games - 1 start - 119 minutes - 0 goals

 

Rhodes has played against Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Estonia, Serbia, Wales, Macedonia and Cyprus, totalling 216 minutes, and failed to score. 

 

[conley]

Did anybody ever read what Roy Keane said about Jordan Rhodes in his book...he admitted to making a mistake in selling him to Huddersfield. ..he said he concentrated too much on what Jordan could not do instead of concentrating on what he could do....I think Strachan should do like wise....

[Bully Wee Villa]

Can Mubtumbu play up front?

[forameus]

8 hours ago, conley said:

Did anybody ever read what Roy Keane said about Jordan Rhodes in his book...he admitted to making a mistake in selling him to Huddersfield. ..he said he concentrated too much on what Jordan could not do instead of concentrating on what he could do....I think Strachan should do like wise....

I see where you're coming from, but we're not talking about the young player that Roy Keane let go.  We're talking about the 26 year old who, for some reason, doesn't seem fancied by an experienced national team manager, and a number of Premier League sides.

There's also the fact that National team managers are under far more pressure than club managers.  If Roy Keane hadn't let him go, he would have had the time to mould him into the player he could come to be.  Strachan gets 10 games over the course of a year.  Perhaps not even that.  If he calls up Rhodes hoping that he could do something for the first three games, and he doesn't, and we drop points, then we're fucked.  He needs to concentrate on what he knows players can do in the short-term.

EDIT: For the record, if Rhodes features at all in the PL this season, I think he'll be in the squad.  He won't start though, unless we have injuries.  Fletcher will be in the squad, then it's probably any three (or two) from Griffiths, Rhodes, Martin, Naismith, McCormack etc.  And to be honest, it's pretty arbitrary who gets picked from them, because they're likely to be limited to a late substitute appearance for whoever started.

[Gordopolis]

17 hours ago, Deeboy said:

Yes, clearly I'm bitter part of the argument for getting Rhodes in was he'd been seen to score a hat trick for Scotland. Amazingly ignoring the fact it was against Luxembourg. At under 21's. 

The same as Rhodes is 'EPL level' now, supposedly. Yet Fletcher whilst actually playing in the EPL was just lucky he was at a shit squad. That's the same 'EPL level' Rhodes who in Middlesbrough's biggest game of the season was dropped to the bench with those people making up excuses from he was injured to they were set up for a draw ( ). Now Scotland have to change the set up to shoe horn Rhodes in (which you've also conveniently completely ignored my request for you to name the formation and line up).

All you read on here is folk saying Rhodes should start, when asked what he'll bring the answer 90% of the time is - 'Goals'.

Newsflash - naw.

EDIT : see your very own reply to RG. Martin has a better conversion rate? "Marginally, yes". 

Can't be arsed wading through all of that, but:

-I'm not clamouring for Rhodes to start. A plan B, a squad member, that's what I'm advocating. I stated as much in my last but one post.

-The Luxembourg U21 HT wasn't part of my argument. It's a shame if its used to ridicule him though. Typical negativity.

[Honest_Man#1]

Rhodes has looked a class act so far in pre-season. He's done everything he could do to get the start in the opener vs Stoke, but I don't think Karanka will leave Negredo on the bench. Either way, he looks like he could be up to the EPL and should be pushing for an inclusion in Scotland squads at least now.

[underdogunderdog underdog]

Ross McCormack has moved to Aston Villa. Shame a Premier League team didn't take a chance on him.

[Tommy Nooka]

3 minutes ago, underdogunderdog underdog said:

Ross McCormack has moved to Aston Villa. Shame a Premier League team didn't take a chance on him.

England is completely bonkers, McCormack must be approaching £30m in transfer fees and he's never kicked a ball in the Premier League. 

[kenny131]

1 thing I, m confident about steven fletcher won't score anywhere near the amount of goals Rhodes and mccormack regularly did in the championship and will force the ginger ninja to drop him from starting select

[Gordopolis]

16 minutes ago, kenny131 said:

1 thing I, m confident about steven fletcher won't score anywhere near the amount of goals Rhodes and mccormack regularly did in the championship and will force the ginger ninja to drop him from starting select

Hope we start to see a bit of variation of selection in our staring XIs. Fletcher can play the one up role fairly well and he's a good footballer, so no matter what, he'll be in our squads for this campaign and probably starting the majority of games. But hopefully if Rhodes plays and scores in the EPL (he has been excellent in the preseason going by reports, tho pre-season can be deceptive) then instead of just shutting the door on him completely we'll use him as and when we need a bit more of an incisive edge or just a fresh, hungry option (going by interviews it sounds like he's quietly seething and gagging to prove Strachan wrong). If Martin and McCormack* notch plenty in the championship and Griffiths carries on as he's doing, they should provide ample alternatives and backup options.

Not sure where Naismith sits in all of this. Maybe his time is coming to and end? 

*Tho I'm not sure the move to Villa was the best idea - I have a feeling Villa will do what Blackburn did: spend big to try to bounce back up but because of behind the scenes turmoil end up going in the other direction.

[troopio]

Whatever happens Fletcher is the undisputed first pick for that fool who is charge until he leaves. McCormack will outscore him in the Championship and still not get a game ahead of him because it doesn't suit the "system", the fabled system that has seen us achieve absolutely nothing but hey ho! What happens also if Rhodes scores in the EPL and Griffiths scores goals in the Champions League/Europa League as well as in the League as well as what I say above all whilst the chosen one probably does very little yet is still the first choice? Only Scotland who have craved Strikers that actually score for years could willingly leave out Strikers who actually score in favour of one just because he has semi decent feet and holds the ball up well but who doesn't actually score any goals himself for his Club or unless its for us against Minnows.

[Tommy Nooka]

57 minutes ago, troopio said:

Whatever happens Fletcher is the undisputed first pick for that fool who is charge until he leaves. McCormack will outscore him in the Championship and still not get a game ahead of him because it doesn't suit the "system", the fabled system that has seen us achieve absolutely nothing but hey ho! What happens also if Rhodes scores in the EPL and Griffiths scores goals in the Champions League/Europa League as well as in the League as well as what I say above all whilst the chosen one probably does very little yet is still the first choice? Only Scotland who have craved Strikers that actually score for years could willingly leave out Strikers who actually score in favour of one just because he has semi decent feet and holds the ball up well but who doesn't actually score any goals himself for his Club or unless its for us against Minnows.

If we say our 4 best Strikers are Fletcher, McCormack, Rhodes and Griffiths then basing it on goals scored at club level this is how they rank -

1. Rhodes(26) - Pl. 334 Sc. 171 (0.51 goals pg)

2. Griffiths(25) - Pl. 258 Sc. 138 (0.54 gpg)

3. McCormack(29) - Pl. 381 Sc. 134 (0.35 gpg)

4. Fletcher(29) - Pl 358 Sc. 98 (0.27 gpg)

Yet we consistently pick the worst striker of the lot.

The 2 youngest guys have score the most goals despite being 3/4 years younger.

If we continue to play Steven Fletcher then we will always struggle to score goals, he's a carthorse with an inflated opinion of himself thanks to the Scottish press.

[kenny131]

Some good points in those last few posts. Fletcher does have some qualities that we may need in certain games, but I would love to see mccormack playing up top with rhodes

[oneteaminglasgow]

If we say our 4 best Strikers are Fletcher, McCormack, Rhodes and Griffiths then basing it on goals scored at club level this is how they rank -

1. Rhodes(26) - Pl. 334 Sc. 171 (0.51 goals pg)

2. Griffiths(25) - Pl. 258 Sc. 138 (0.54 gpg)

3. McCormack(29) - Pl. 381 Sc. 134 (0.35 gpg)

4. Fletcher(29) - Pl 358 Sc. 98 (0.27 gpg)

Yet we consistently pick the worst striker of the lot.

The 2 youngest guys have score the most goals despite being 3/4 years younger.

If we continue to play Steven Fletcher then we will always struggle to score goals, he's a carthorse with an inflated opinion of himself thanks to the Scottish press.

Aye, because scoring goals in the third tier of English football or the Scottish Premiership is the same as scoring goals in the English Premiership.

Steven Fletcher is quite easily the best footballer out of them, and will rightly be picked ahead of the others to start most games.

[kenny131]

18 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

Aye, because scoring goals in the third tier of English football or the Scottish Premiership is the same as scoring goals in the English Premiership.

Steven Fletcher is quite easily the best footballer out of them, and will rightly be picked ahead of the others to start most games.

 

Have you seen fletcher scoring record in the prem its honking. He also played in the Scottish prem not great record either so nah  your point is pump.  Wait till you see his championship record too.  

 

[oneteaminglasgow]

Have you seen fletcher scoring record in the prem its honking. He also played in the Scottish prem not great record either so nah  your point is pump.  Wait till you see his championship record too.  

 

It's pretty good when compared with the grand total of 0 premiership goals for the other 3 combined.

There's also the obvious fact that a modern striker shouldn't just be judged on goals and merely being a good goal scorer doesn't mean that you're equipped to play international football.

[Tommy Nooka]

It's pretty good when compared with the grand total of 0 premiership goals for the other 3 combined.

There's also the obvious fact that a modern striker shouldn't just be judged on goals and merely being a good goal scorer doesn't mean that you're equipped to play international football.

It's pretty hard to score goals in a league when you've never had the chance to play in it.
Rhodes should get his chance soon enough, Fletcher on the other hand has been fortunate enough to play in the premier league and was pretty average, which is why he's playing for Sheff Wed now.

[Salvo Montalbano]

7 minutes ago, Tommy Nooka said:

Fletcher on the other hand has been fortunate enough to play in the premier league and was pretty average, which is why he's playing for Sheff Wed now.

 

 

What do you mean by "fortunate to play" there? His goals got one team promoted there, he then scored a few that wasn't quite enough to keep them up but was enough to get him a move to another Premiership club then a year later another Premiership club.