Striking Options

[Underpants Gnome]

19 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Are either of the murphys eligible for us?

Aye, Matt Smith is, but I wouldn't have him near the squad tbh.

[dogmc]

Not a great fan of Fletcher, but that said when he came on against malta he looked very sharp, or was it just martin was that bad I, m not sure.  Either way maybe dropping down to the championship and scoring might just give him the confidence in front of goal he has been lacking these past few years. 

With the prospect of better service to our striker we may actually see Fletcher score regularly.

Dunno if it was a combination of Malta being tired and Martin being as slow as continental drift....but fletcher looked miles sharper and quicker than Martin. He also had a much better touch. It's beyond ridiculous that Martin is anywhere near the squad let alone the team. Hopefully we keep Burke ritchie n snodgrass to give fletcher that level of service, but it's a worry that McGhee and Strachan keep wittering on about Mckay and forrest. We've stumbled onto a midfield that works for us, it would be a shame if the management ignored what really worked for us.

[54_and_counting]

4 hours ago, kenny131 said:

Not a great fan of Fletcher, but that said when he came on against malta he looked very sharp, or was it just martin was that bad I, m not sure.  Either way maybe dropping down to the championship and scoring might just give him the confidence in front of goal he has been lacking these past few years. 

With the prospect of better service to our striker we may actually see Fletcher score regularly.

 

2 hours ago, dogmc said:

Dunno if it was a combination of Malta being tired and Martin being as slow as continental drift....but fletcher looked miles sharper and quicker than Martin. He also had a much better touch. It's beyond ridiculous that Martin is anywhere near the squad let alone the team. Hopefully we keep Burke ritchie n snodgrass to give fletcher that level of service, but it's a worry that McGhee and Strachan keep wittering on about Mckay and forrest. We've stumbled onto a midfield that works for us, it would be a shame if the management ignored what really worked for us.

id rather none of them, against the better teams we dont have a good enough striker to hold the ball long enough for our defence to get a breather, and with our midfield looking as good as it has done in fucking years i think we are better going with a runner up front and the midfield dropping it in behind for him to chase, instead of us being on the backfoot we can try put the opposition on the backfoot, even if its for a few seconds to we get our shape back etc

i know it was only malta, but it was so refreshing to see our defenders pass it to our midfielders instead of going straight to the bustling front man to try and hold it up to then play it to the midfielders

[accies1874]

id rather none of them, against the better teams we dont have a good enough striker to hold the ball long enough for our defence to get a breather, and with our midfield looking as good as it has done in fucking years i think we are better going with a runner up front and the midfield dropping it in behind for him to chase, instead of us being on the backfoot we can try put the opposition on the backfoot, even if its for a few seconds to we get our shape back etc

i know it was only malta, but it was so refreshing to see our defenders pass it to our midfielders instead of going straight to the bustling front man to try and hold it up to then play it to the midfielders

If Strachan opts for a "runner", he'll go for Naismith. I'm not sure he's actually getting much game time for Norwich, but he's certainly our best striker in that department.

[1320Lichtie]

Would hardly class Naismith as a runner now, played in the hole for ages and not blessed with pace

Fletchers hold up play is actually really decent and he's a talented player, just lacks that predator instinct and doesn't seem to get in the right positions that will get him goals. I'd fancy him curling in a belter from the edge of the box more than I'd fancy him having to get on to a low ball into the box

[54_and_counting]

11 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Would hardly class Naismith as a runner now, played in the hole for ages and not blessed with pace

Fletchers hold up play is actually really decent and he's a talented player, just lacks that predator instinct and doesn't seem to get in the right positions that will get him goals. I'd fancy him curling in a belter from the edge of the box more than I'd fancy him having to get on to a low ball into the box

It might be decent against mid table jobbers, but against better defenders i dont think he's good enough and we end up under pressure more

I know it sounds daft, but the role kenny miller used to do, at least he got opposition teams turning around and running to their own goal and not ours 

[Diamonds are Forever]

7 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

It might be decent against mid table jobbers, but against better defenders i dont think he's good enough and we end up under pressure more

I know it sounds daft, but the role kenny miller used to do, at least he got opposition teams turning around and running to their own goal and not ours 

 

I think that's true, but the problem is we have no-one to do the Miller role. For all that he used to take a bit of stick, he was pretty effective given the role he was asked to do. I don't see anyone who we have now that is in that mould.

[Officer Barbrady]

I'd argue that the 'Miller' role, while a useful tactic from the only player really suited to it, has had a very negative impact on a large part of the rest of the team long after he retired.

 

The only sustained period of success in using it was arguably Smith's first five or six games, and it became easy for people to rely on him doing this, instead of looking at proper solutions.....Fletcher, McFadden, McCormack and any other central attacker was shunted out wide to accomodate him, instead of giving him a closer, equally mobile partner. 

 

This has resulted in a midfield too unsure of itself as to whether they join up with the headless chicken or not, instead of actually working in sync with him.....it's not Millers' fault he was over-used and exploited, and it should be the last thing on any managers' mind.

[forameus]

And that'll be the same Miller who received fairly vociferous hate in the latter part of his Scotland career.  Isn't hindsight wonderful?

[accies1874]

And that'll be the same Miller who received fairly vociferous hate in the latter part of his Scotland career.  Isn't hindsight wonderful?

I remember folk actually booing him when his name got called out Of course, he ended up going on to score in the game (1-1 vs Macedonia).

[Paco]

It poses an interesting question. What is better from a Scotland perspective? A player playing at the bottom end of the epl, not setting the world alight but being a solid enough player. Hardly scoring any goals due to the lack of service.

Or someone in the top end of the championship banging them in every week?

On the one hand it's good from a confidence perspective to have a striker that scores goals but it's a lot more difficult to then go and play against top defenders at international level.

Thoughts?

Personally I think we want someone who steps up a level. We've become specialist at having English Championship goalscorers. Off the top of my head, Jordan Rhodes, Craig Mackail-Smith, Chris Martin, Kenny Miller and Ross McCormack have all performed exceptionally well at that level, leading to a clamour for them to play (or not to play, in Martin's case).

The only one of those to have any kind of positive impact on the national team is Kenny Miller, who played in the EPL for Wolves and Derby and of course came back to Scotland at Celtic and Rangers. The rest have stayed at Championship level. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Steven Fletcher and Steven Naismith have now dropped to that level, which may be good or bad for them being used to EPL. In the case of Fletcher after a torrid time at Sunderland it can't get much worse, but at his age game time is probably the best thing to get. Naismith? Someone will take a go on him, probably Moyes in January.

[54_and_counting]

16 hours ago, Officer Barbrady said:

I'd argue that the 'Miller' role, while a useful tactic from the only player really suited to it, has had a very negative impact on a large part of the rest of the team long after he retired.

 

The only sustained period of success in using it was arguably Smith's first five or six games, and it became easy for people to rely on him doing this, instead of looking at proper solutions.....Fletcher, McFadden, McCormack and any other central attacker was shunted out wide to accomodate him, instead of giving him a closer, equally mobile partner. 

 

This has resulted in a midfield too unsure of itself as to whether they join up with the headless chicken or not, instead of actually working in sync with him.....it's not Millers' fault he was over-used and exploited, and it should be the last thing on any managers' mind.

i think maybe part of the problem in millers time was that the defence was happy to hump it long to him, isolating the midfield, instead as ive said before we now have one of the most attacking midfields we've seen in a long time, so instead of a miller type chasing 50 yards balls from the back, we could now have a striker running onto better more accurate passes from our midfield which imo would give us a much more threatening attack

the big striker up front will work and it will be useful against weaker defensively teams, but the likes of england etc have better defenders than we have attackers, they will eat up the hold up play and inevitably the ball gets returned towards our goal quicker

[1320Lichtie]

And that'll be the same Miller who received fairly vociferous hate in the latter part of his Scotland career.  Isn't hindsight wonderful?

I love Miller. A stalwart in the team for many years, broke into the team just as I started watching us

[forameus]

Just now, 1320Lichtie said:

 

 

I love Miller. A stalwart in the team for many years, broke into the team just as I started watching us

 

 

I was on the fence.  He wasn't really producing - in fact, funnily enough, think he was criticised for not scoring enough for a forward, sounds familiar - but he always made himself available, always turned up, and always ran himself into the ground.  I saw the fault more with the managers that kept picking him, although it was more the lack of options that probably caused it.

Just like Fletcher, he was the best option out of a selection of average options we had at the time.

[Officer Barbrady]

Initially, as Smith's immovable choice at 9, he definitely became the poster-boy for lone strikers.....which, for the next decade, managed to hang almost every other one since, such was his significant impact. McLeish often paired him with either Boyd or Faddy when he had more than one available, and had outstanding success in benefitting from Miller's pressing resulting in goals and wins. 

 

The problem was, under Burley, Levein and then Strachan, that while he remained a strong option, the team itself was neglected because he inadvertently became a convenient patsy. Look at the options of potential strike partners (S Fletcher, Boyd second time around, McCormack, CMS) second strikers (Naismith, McFadden) or even attacking midfielders (Maloney, Commons, Snodgrass) who were shunted out wide (if picked at all) instead of being within twenty yards of him, where his hard work may have been rewarded more. 

 

This caused a lot more damage long-term than simply failing to qualify for finals'....it gave the players a genuine complex, which to his credit, Strachan seemed to have eliminated, until his decrying of those players in public. 

 

If five or six of Miller's teammates matched his attitude and commitment, we'd have definitely got second ahead of the Czechs, and not fallen apart in the 2014 qualifiers like a Siberian-manufactured deckchair. 

[Gordopolis]

Couldn't agree more with the last 5 or 6 posts. Love Miller for what he did for us but despair that we were driven to, and allowed ourselves to become defined by, the shape of team he complemented.

[lubo_blaha]

Personally I think we want someone who steps up a level. We've become specialist at having English Championship goalscorers. Off the top of my head, Jordan Rhodes, Craig Mackail-Smith, Chris Martin, Kenny Miller and Ross McCormack have all performed exceptionally well at that level, leading to a clamour for them to play (or not to play, in Martin's case).

The only one of those to have any kind of positive impact on the national team is Kenny Miller, who played in the EPL for Wolves and Derby and of course came back to Scotland at Celtic and Rangers. The rest have stayed at Championship level. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Steven Fletcher and Steven Naismith have now dropped to that level, which may be good or bad for them being used to EPL. In the case of Fletcher after a torrid time at Sunderland it can't get much worse, but at his age game time is probably the best thing to get. Naismith? Someone will take a go on him, probably Moyes in January.

Miller played for the worst EPL side of all time and scored about 4 goals, I think it was a coincidence.

[1320Lichtie]

Couldn't agree more with the last 5 or 6 posts. Love Miller for what he did for us but despair that we were driven to, and allowed ourselves to become defined by, the shape of team he complemented.

We'd be 1 up top regardless tbf. Suits our strengths at the moment

[accies1874]

My dad fucking hated Miller after his miss in Ukraine. He still goes on about it today.

[RandomGuy.]

Miller was absolutely shite, and the fact folk are fawning over a complete workhorse who could barely hit a clean shot from 12 yards is staggering.