US upset by Russian Planes in Baltic

[THE KING]

The US are ripping their tights over Russian planes getting too close to their ships in the Baltic..yes the Baltic!

No doubt the US would be cool about a Russian Aircraft carriers in the Caribbean.

[Lex]

Indeed. The media reporting of this is very disappointing.

It's like... what are those Russian planes doing there beside that poor American ship..?

Not noting the fact that the Baltic is a sea on which Russia has a shore and that is nowhere near the USA.

[Newbornbairn]

It also has a number of NATO countries that have been feeling threatened by Russian beligerance lately, but don't let that get in the way of your anti-US mewling.

[Jacksgranda]

It also has a number of NATO countries that have been feeling threatened by Russian beligerance lately, but don't let that get in the way of your anti-US mewling.

 

  My take on it, too.

[Antiochas III]

The US are ripping their tights over Russian planes getting too close to their ships in the Baltic..yes the Baltic!

No doubt the US would be cool about a Russian Aircraft carriers in the Caribbean.

Probably not but I'm sure Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Germany and Denmark are more than happy the US have a naval presence there.

While Sweden and Finland remain neither here nor there about it.

[McRuffian]

It also has a number of NATO countries that have been feeling threatened by Russian beligerance lately, but don't let that get in the way of your anti-US mewling.

NATO member states near or on the Russian border?

One wonders what might have upset the Kremlin and prompted them to throw some weight around.

[Yank Mike]

The US are ripping their tights over Russian planes getting too close to their ships in the Baltic..yes the Baltic!

No doubt the US would be cool about a Russian Aircraft carriers in the Caribbean.

The Russian navy operates in the Western Hemisphere.

There's also a slight moral difference between the type of regimes in Europe that the US has traditionally attempted to protect vs. the type of Latin American regimes that Russia has traditionally attempted to support.

 

 

NATO member states near or on the Russian border? One wonders what might have upset the Kremlin and prompted them to throw some weight around.

Are you a member of the Russian government?

If not, why would you be more concerned about the "feelings" of the local bully vs the security of the smaller countries which always seem to find themselves bullied?

[McRuffian]

Russia has been bullied since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

By every western capital from Washington to Berlin (and every disco I've been in .....nah).

It has been given reassurances about NATO which have been reneged on.

And now we wonder why they've decided to make a stand.

We could try understanding their behaviour rather in the hope of seeking peace and security for the Baltic states instead of taking the standard Western media approach of painting Putin as Hitler reincarnated?

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=-KHCNk9BYy4

[pandarilla]

The anti Russian rhetoric in our media only adds to the problem.

(But don't let that get in the way of the pro US mewlings).

[Yank Mike]

Russia has been bullied since the collapse of the Soviet Union. By every western capital from Washington to Berlin (and every disco I've been in .....nah). It has been given reassurances about NATO which have been reneged on. And now we wonder why they've decided to make a stand. We could try understanding their behaviour rather in the hope of seeking peace and security for the Baltic states instead of taking the standard Western media approach of painting Putin as Hitler reincarnated? https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=-KHCNk9BYy4

 

You could just as easily read the situation as the West rolling post-Cold War Russia back towards their natural boundaries from their imperial borders.

For the record, I'm generally on "the US has no interest in Eastern Europe worth fighting a war over" side of things. But it's clear who's the bad guy on the block in that part of the world.

[pandarilla]

You could just as easily read the situation as the West rolling post-Cold War Russia back towards their natural boundaries from their imperial borders.

For the record, I'm generally on "the US has no interest in Eastern Europe worth fighting a war over" side of things. But it's clear who's the bad guy on the block in that part of the world.

Looking at things through the lens of bad guys and good guys is definitely adding to the problem.

[WaffenThinMint]

It's becoming a popular pastime amongst military jet pilots over the last decade to troll US naval fleets. But I wouldn't worry for the pilots.
 
On 12 April 2014 the USS Donald Cook was in the Black Sea when a Russian Sukkoi 24 Fencer tactical bomber flew over and by the vessel twelve times practicing attack manouevres. The Americans launched an official protest claiming the pilot's actions had demoralised their crew.

 

What allegedly "demoralised them (not confirmed, but interesting if true) that the Fencer had been testing a brand new version of the Khibiny electronic jamming device system & the pilot couldn't resist trying out his new toy (against orders not to use it against foreign shipping) - which succeeded in knocking out not merely the ship's entire missile defence systems and radar, but most of its electronic systems, leaving it a floating sitting target for almost an hour until it had flown off.

[Yank Mike]

Looking at things through the lens of bad guys and good guys is definitely adding to the problem.

I would say that in any conflict or disagreement between Russia and the Baltics that there's a pretty clear good and bad side, if you consider things like democracy, national self-determination, anti-imperialism, and independent civil society as important.. Russia v Ukraine is more shades of grey.

[renton]

It's becoming a popular pastime amongst military jet pilots over the last decade to troll US naval fleets. But I wouldn't worry for the pilots.

 

On 12 April 2014 the USS Donald Cook was in the Black Sea when a Russian Sukkoi 24 Fencer tactical bomber flew over and by the vessel twelve times practicing attack manouevres. The Americans launched an official protest claiming the pilot's actions had demoralised their crew.

 

What allegedly "demoralised them (not confirmed, but interesting if true) that the Fencer had been testing a brand new version of the Khibiny electronic jamming device system & the pilot couldn't resist trying out his new toy (against orders not to use it against foreign shipping) - which succeeded in knocking out not merely the ship's entire missile defence systems and radar, but most of its electronic systems, leaving it a floating sitting target for almost an hour until it had flown off.

 

I could just about buy the idea that an airborne jamming pod might stop a missile guidance radar from locking onto an aircraft. The idea that it knocked out the ship's electrical systems is utter, utter bollocks. The kind of raw power that thing would have to have to emit a strong enough EMP to knock out a an 8000 tonne ship's core electrical systems - installed power about 8MW - would have cooked the pilot of the aircraft as well as disabling his own systems.

[Newbornbairn]

I could just about buy the idea that an airborne jamming pod might stop a missile guidance radar from locking onto an aircraft. The idea that it knocked out the ship's electrical systems is utter, utter bollocks. The kind of raw power that thing would have to have to emit a strong enough EMP to knock out a an 8000 tonne ship's core electrical systems - installed power about 8MW - would have cooked the pilot of the aircraft as well as disabling his own systems.

This.

[pandarilla]

I would say that in any conflict or disagreement between Russia and the Baltics that there's a pretty clear good and bad side, if you consider things like democracy, national self-determination, anti-imperialism, and independent civil society as important.. Russia v Ukraine is more shades of grey.

I consider democracy and anti-imperialism to be very important. I don't however consider the west to be the keepers of those values.

One of the excellent points in that 'bitter lake (or something similar)' documentary was how western leaders have simplified all political issues (especially foreign policy) over the last 30 years to create a narrative that suits their agenda.

I'm no defender of Putin or Russia but the shite that we tell ourselves in the west is nowhere near the truth.

[Jambomo]

I consider democracy and anti-imperialism to be very important. I don't however consider the west to be the keepers of those values.

One of the excellent points in that 'bitter lake (or something similar)' documentary was how western leaders have simplified all political issues (especially foreign policy) over the last 30 years to create a narrative that suits their agenda.

I'm no defender of Putin or Russia but the shite that we tell ourselves in the west is nowhere near the truth.

Completely agree with this.

[Wee Willie]

I consider democracy and anti-imperialism to be very important. I don't however consider the west to be the keepers of those values.

One of the excellent points in that 'bitter lake (or something similar)' documentary was how western leaders have simplified all political issues (especially foreign policy) over the last 30 years to create a narrative that suits their agenda.

I'm no defender of Putin or Russia but the shite that we tell ourselves in the west is nowhere near the truth.

 

Completely agree with this.

 

Ditto.

I'm sure I saw a film poster which said something like:

There are three sides to a story - their side, our side and the truth.

[Yank Mike]

I consider democracy and anti-imperialism to be very important. I don't however consider the west to be the keepers of those values.

 

It's fine to have that opinion in general.

However, in this specific conflict I'm not sure how you could come to any other conclusion than that the West / the USA is the defender of those values.

[THE KING]

It also has a number of NATO countries that have been feeling threatened by Russian beligerance lately, but don't let that get in the way of your anti-US mewling.

I sure at some point Cuba and some Central American countries would have loved Russian war ships cruising around them, I think we know what the US response to that would be , and it would be the Russians branded as being aggressors.

Russia has few bases abroad and most of them are in the former Union, The US has about a 1000 bases all over the globe.