The Conservative and Unionist Party.

[Fide]

Oaksoft, imo

 

[Shades75]

That is exactly my point. Its lidicrouse to say the Tories can NEVER win in Scotland by looking at their statistics. Yet another way statistics can be abused to suit an argument. Sensible people will ignore stats as they can never be trusted. Thats true whether the source is the government or independent organisations p.

You used statistics to argue that they could win. The exact thing you're arguing against here.

That's "lidicrouse".

[Wee Willie]

Boris's lackey? He's at war with Dave and Gideon. Boris and Dave have disliked each other since they were at Oxford together. Davidson is very loyal to Cameron who told her that she would get his full support if she stood against Fraser. It will be fascinating to see how she copes against Sturgeon at FMQs

. If, as I suspect, she struggles, her career will fade quickly.

Aye, right.

Straight to the House o' Iniquity.

Job for life at the taxpayers expense.

[Bishop Briggs]

Aye, right.

Straight to the House o' Iniquity.

Job for life at the taxpayers expense.

 

Agree but there's worse in that place. I would abolish it and establish a senate that is elected regionally by PR. Scottish senators would scrutinise Holyrood legislation too.

[Wee Willie]

Agree but there's worse in that place. I would abolish it and establish a senate that is elected regionally by PR. Scottish senators would scrutinise Holyrood legislation too.

Can you no remember when there was a Scottish Grand Committee way back in the day before a Scottish Parliament.

The Tories were the majority in Westminster but had very few MP's in Scotland.

They just swamped the Committee with English MP's so that they would have a majority.

What do you think would happen if Tories only had a handful of Scottish Senators yet were the majority in England?

Don't say well there would have to be an agreement that only Scottish Senators could scrutinise the Scottish Parliament.

Could you ever see English Tory MP's agreeing to that?

 

Anyway that is all pie in the sky.

There is absolutely no way the mainstream parties in England will alter FPTP

And there is certainly no way will they alter the House of Lords - where else can they retire to.

The only answer is Independence.

Nae ifs or buts.

[Bishop Briggs]

Can you no remember when there was a Scottish Grand Committee way back in the day before a Scottish Parliament.

The Tories were the majority in Westminster but had very few MP's in Scotland.

They just swamped the Committee with English MP's so that they would have a majority.

What do you think would happen if Tories only had a handful of Scottish Senators yet were the majority in England?

Don't say well there would have to be an agreement that only Scottish Senators could scrutinise the Scottish Parliament.

Could you ever see English Tory MP's agreeing to that?

 

Anyway that is all pie in the sky.

There is absolutely no way the mainstream parties in England will alter FPTP

And there is certainly no way will they alter the House of Lords - where else can they retire to.

The only answer is Independence.

Nae ifs or buts.

 

Yes if it was part of a deal that included EVEL.

[Wee Willie]

Yes if it was part of a deal that included EVEL.

I thought they already had EVEL?

Anyway is that all you took from my post?

No mention what happened in the Scottish Grand Committee.

 

'There is absolutely no way the mainstream parties in England will alter FPTP

And there is certainly no way will they alter the House of Lords - where else can they retire to'.

What's your comments on that ?

If you agree with that statement then what I said 'Anyway that is all pie in the sky.' is correct.

[Bishop Briggs]

I thought they already had EVEL?

Anyway is that all you took from my post?

No mention what happened in the Scottish Grand Committee.

 

'There is absolutely no way the mainstream parties in England will alter FPTP

And there is certainly no way will they alter the House of Lords - where else can they retire to'.

What's your comments on that ?

If you agree with that statement then what I said 'Anyway that is all pie in the sky.' is correct.

 

No. There was a fudge.

 

I do recall the Scottish Grand Committee which was made up from MPs in the Commons. My proposal is very different. Only senators who are elected in Scotland, replacing the Lords, would scrutinise Holyrood legislation in the Upper Chamber. They would not be able to block Scottish legislation.

 

Lords reform is long overdue. There are too many and Cameron will appoint even more. At some point, there will be too many and that will be the opportunity for change. 

 

On FPTP, I could see a Labour-led coalition proposing a switch to PR. However, AV was rejected in the referendum and the voters would want a say if PR, e.g. STV, was proposed.

[Wee Willie]

No. There was a fudge.

 

I do recall the Scottish Grand Committee which was made up from MPs in the Commons. My proposal is very different. Only senators who are elected in Scotland, replacing the Lords, would scrutinise Holyrood legislation in the Upper Chamber. They would not be able to block Scottish legislation.

I do recall the Scottish Grand Committee which was made up from MPs in the Commons

C'mon BB that's a wishy washy way tae describe that farce.

Reading that, you're accepting it's a legitimate way to deny the working of Scot's MP's to legislate on Scottish issues through a Scottish Grand Committee.

It's like the present day - one Tory MP in Scotland.

What if we still had a SGC, would you find it acceptable to fill it with 'MP's from the Commons' to show the ratio of MP's in Westminster?

Just think if that were to happen.

The SNP would be the third party in a SGC behind the Tories and Labour.

 

Your proposal to get Scottish Senators you would have to get the agreement of English Tory MP's.

Can you really see any way that they would vote to modernise Westminster and the other place.

Like I say, pie in the sky.

[Wee Willie]

No. There was a fudge.

 

I do recall the Scottish Grand Committee which was made up from MPs in the Commons. My proposal is very different. Only senators who are elected in Scotland, replacing the Lords, would scrutinise Holyrood legislation in the Upper Chamber. They would not be able to block Scottish legislation.

 

Lords reform is long overdue. There are too many and Cameron will appoint even more. At some point, there will be too many and that will be the opportunity for change. 

 

On FPTP, I could see a Labour-led coalition proposing a switch to PR. However, AV was rejected in the referendum and the voters would want a say if PR, e.g. STV, was proposed.

You added a wee bit while I was posting my reply.

 

Lords reform is long overdue.

Jeez how long have folk been saying that.

Where are the Tory and Labour MP's who would reform that place.

Where would they retire to.

 

There are too many and Cameron will appoint even more.

And who is gonnae stop him or any future Tory government.

 

On FPTP, I could see a Labour-led coalition proposing a switch to PR

For that to happen the Labour party would have to win an election.

There are other threads on here where it is believed that that possibility is looking impossible.

After winning that election they would have to convince all of their MP's to vote accordingly.

The Tories need that House as a retirement home.

Likewise a few Labour MP's look on it the same.

Lets face it.

In FPTP the Tory and Labour parties come either first or second and are the Government or official opposition.

Why would any of them want to change that?

Like I say, pie in the sky.

[Bishop Briggs]

I do recall the Scottish Grand Committee which was made up from MPs in the Commons

C'mon BB that's a wishy washy way tae describe that farce.

Reading that, you're accepting it's a legitimate way to deny the working of Scot's MP's to legislate on Scottish issues through a Scottish Grand Committee.

It's like the present day - one Tory MP in Scotland.

What if we still had a SGC, would you find it acceptable to fill it with 'MP's from the Commons' to show the ratio of MP's in Westminster?

Just think if that were to happen.

The SNP would be the third party in a SGC behind the Tories and Labour.

 

Your proposal to get Scottish Senators you would have to get the agreement of English Tory MP's.

Can you really see any way that they would vote to modernise Westminster and the other place.

Like I say, pie in the sky.

 

Where did I say that? All I said was that I remember the Scottish Grand Committee and devolution killed it. The answer to your question is that I would not find it acceptable.

 

My proposal to replace the Lords with a Senate would require the agreement of a majority of MPs. It is possible that a Labour or Coalition government, possibly with the support reformist Conservatives, could get it through. 

 

It wasn't that long ago that devolution and a Scottish Parliament were dismissed as "pie in the sky". Even if a proposal if not politically feasible now, it should not stop it being discussed.

[Wee Willie]

Fair do's.

You live with your dreams and I'll stick tae being a realist.

[Bishop Briggs]

Fair do's.

You live with your dreams and I'll stick tae being a realist.

 

20 years ago, a "realist" would have regarded a referendum on independence as a dream. 

[Wee Willie]

20 years ago, a "realist" would have regarded a referendum on independence as a dream. 

Aye, and 20 years ago that realist would be me

But, c'mon whit's crazier, the Tories modernising the political system (to their own detriment) or a referendum on independence.

One is hard tae believe but the other is impossible tae believe.

 

Edit: I'll ask again. Why would the Tories ever change the political system.

[Bishop Briggs]

Aye, and 20 years ago that realist would be me

But, c'mon whit's crazier, the Tories modernising the political system (to their own detriment) or a referendum on independence.

One is hard tae believe but the other is impossible tae believe.

 

Edit: I'll ask again. Why would the Tories ever change the political system.

 

I did not suggest that a Tory government would modernise or change the political system. Re-read my earlier posts. 

[dirty dingus]

20 years ago, a "realist" would have regarded a referendum on independence as a dream. 

That was a dark age before we had Hitler cats, Kriss Akabusis Awooga, shoes on head and blogs/websites to call out the spoon served shite the media and establishment were feeding us.

[Wee Willie]

I did not suggest that a Tory government would modernise or change the political system. Re-read my earlier posts. 

I'm no saying you did suggest the Tories but they are most likely to be the government for the foreseeable future - and probably beyond - hence my statement.

What you said was a Labour-led coalition proposing a switch to PR. Why should they?

They'll always be the government OR the official opposition and as its been pointed out elsewhere the Labour party

has had plenty of time in government and as the opposition to come up with a plan for PR and to reform that other Hoose.

Naebody can foresee or forecast the future but it would take a completely different Labour party returning to its roots

as a socialist party to even try and reform the political system.

I cannae see it happening in my lifetime or in yours.

[Bishop Briggs]

I'm no saying you did suggest the Tories but they are most likely to be the government for the foreseeable future - and probably beyond - hence my statement.

What you said was a Labour-led coalition proposing a switch to PR. Why should they?

They'll always be the government OR the official opposition and as its been pointed out elsewhere the Labour party

has had plenty of time in government and as the opposition to come up with a plan for PR and to reform that other Hoose.

Naebody can foresee or forecast the future but it would take a completely different Labour party returning to its roots

as a socialist party to even try and reform the political system.

I cannae see it happening in my lifetime or in yours.

 

Because PR would probably the condition demanded by prospective partners for a Labour-led coalition. The Lib Dems could have wrung it out of the Tories but Clegg's team Hibsed it and only got a referendum on AV instead. I can see it happening in my lifetime unless the Grim Reaper comes earlier than expected..  

[Peppino Impastato]

 

Because PR would probably the condition demanded by prospective partners for a Labour-led coalition. The Lib Dems could have wrung it out of the Tories but Clegg's team Hibsed it and only got a referendum on AV instead. I can see it happening in my lifetime unless the Grim Reaper comes earlier than expected..  

Stop talking utter shite, FPTP massively favours the Tories and Labour therefore there is not a chance it will ever change for any reason whatsoever for the rest of human history. As long as the UK exists it will be FPTP as turkeys don't vote for xmas.

What a slavering load of utter shite.

[Bishop Briggs]

 

Stop talking utter shite, FPTP massively favours the Tories and Labour therefore there is not a chance it will ever change for any reason whatsoever for the rest of human history. As long as the UK exists it will be FPTP as turkeys don't vote for xmas.

What a slavering load of utter shite.

 

 

Just get lost Fuzzy. You are just a thick numpty who has nothing but childish abuse to offer. Nobody pays any attention to your moronic drivel.