The Conservative and Unionist Party.

[forever_blue]

When the Tories go up to lift the scottish cup , we'll be there

[welshbairn]

On the other hand, universal means universal. And while I've no doubt that what Richard Branson declares his income to Hector as bears about as much resemblance to reality to the average Salvador Dali work, he's almost certainly put in enough NI to qualify for the basic pension.

I'm not really suggesting we get rid of the universal pension, as they would find ways of doing people who do need it as well as who don't. I was just making the point that we pay many times more out to people who don't really need it in the form of pensions than we do to benefit claimants.

[Thumper]

I'm not really suggesting we get rid of the universal pension, as they would find ways of doing people who do need it as well as who don't. I was just making the point that we pay many times more out to people who don't really need it in the form of pensions than we do to benefit claimants.

 

Quite. But it gets paid out to a group who would never, ever fail to vote. And amongst whom can be found literally millions of convenient sob stories if anything were ever done about it. Which is why pensions will never, ever change. Might as well suck it up.

[Crossbill]

Have those Tory MPs who are being investigated for electoral fraud had the whip withdrawn yet? 

 

I'm sure we will be reading about them all in great detail, over several days if not weeks, on the front pages of the national newspapers soon...

 

...or maybe not.

[Fotbawmad]

If you're bitter about paying money out of your taxes to people who don't need it you should be angry about the state pensions being paid out to the wealthy baby boomers who REALLY don't need it. Those scroungers get many times the cash from tax payers than the cash going to the unemployed.

The money won't be there for them, and there is plenty of surveys which shows they know this. However, it's undeniable that pensions have gotten more generous over the years. Even when inflation is taken into account. There is not a chance in hell my generation can or would be willing to pay the increased levels of taxation it would take to support them. 

 

They've paid in all their lives. Of course they deserve to get their money back.

This is the usual excuse you hear from older people or people who sympathize with them. Yes, they have paid into it their whole lives, but they've taken far more out of it than they've ever paid in. I remember my gran coming out with this rhetoric a few years back. Unsurprisingly, I did not challenge her when she said it.

[Bishop Briggs]

Have those Tory MPs who are being investigated for electoral fraud had the whip withdrawn yet? 

 

I'm sure we will be reading about them all in great detail, over several days if not weeks, on the front pages of the national newspapers soon...

 

...or maybe not.

 

What a stupid and ignorant comment!

 

The constituency expenses returns to the Election Commission are the responsibility of the election agents. Candidates make returns in relation to their personal expenditure only. 

 

So why should the Whip be withdrawn whilst the police are investigating? Or are you just indulging in petty playground politics?

[Shades75]

And where did I say that I supported terminally ill people having their benefits cut?

An intelligent man would not need to ask this question, again.

[Broomhill Ultra]

Elite class - Millionaires etc

Upper middle class - Upper management, some business owners, footballer, actors etc

Middle class - Well paid office workers, police officers etc

Working class - manual labourers and shop workers

Underclass - Long term unemployed

That is fucking tragic, footballers are upper middle class 😆 is that dependent on which league they play in? Gazza must have gone from underclass to elite class and back in one lifetime!

Our very own Adam Smith, right here on P&B.

[Crossbill]

Bishop Briggs, on 09 May 2016 - 17:02, said:

What a stupid and ignorant comment!

 

The constituency expenses returns to the Election Commission are the responsibility of the election agents. Candidates make returns in relation to their personal expenditure only. 

 

So why should the Whip be withdrawn whilst the police are investigating? Or are you just indulging in petty playground politics?

 

Partially yes, but mainly, no. 

 

It's been very instructive to see the press shut up shop over these allegations and the almost complete lack of calls from the other parties for scrutiny - it's actually quite scary how deep the taint seems to run.  Here we have an absolute potential powder keg of a story - something that looks very much on the face of it like organised deceit in reporting election expenses, encompassing a huge number of MPs (33 was the last number I heard), but suddenly everyone wants to have a reasoned response and let those investigating get on without interference.  Imagine for just a second that these were SNP MPs (or Corbyn supporting Labour MPs) whom were caught up in this.  What would the story be then?

 

Compare and contrast with the absolute feeding frenzy around Michelle Thompson and Natalie McGarry, where there seemed no depth salacious speculation would not plumb, nor any shortage of MPs or MSPs lining up to condemn both them personally and the party.

 

I'm sceptical we'll find out the truth of what happened, but to be honest I don't think most people would be surprised to find out that the Conservatives had been parting in a little bit (or actually quite a lot) of electoral fraud.  The really damning thing for me though has been the capitulation of the press (c4 excepted) - do journalists and editors not have spines anymore?

[glasgow-sheep]

Should this thread not be titled The Ruth Davidson Party?

[Shades75]

An intelligent man wouldnt have made a stupid accusation he couldnt back up.

I clearly illustrated how you supported some terminally ill people having their benefits cut.

Very clearly.

[Shades75]

Of course you didnt.

Playground patter, really?

Jesus fucking christ.

[Shades75]

Of course you didnt.

All you need is ANY post from me which specifically states my belief that terminally ill people should have their benefits cut.

Do you want me to draw a fucking picture in crayon?

You admitted to supporting evaluation of terminally ill people's right to benefits. It is inevitable that, and see if you can follow this - it won't be difficult, that some will have their benefits cut because of that process.

Deny it, I dare you.

Tell me no-one would have their benefit cut.

[Shades75]

WTF are you talking about?

Why would ANY terminally ill people ever have their benefits cut?

The assessment system I am suggesting would only INCREASE those benefits for terminally ill people.

At no point have I ever said benefits would be cut for these people or shown any support for that idea.

Not a single person anywhere has suggested benefits cuts for terminally ill people.

You are having a nightmare here kid.

So you only support the evaluation if it results in an increase.

If it results in a decrease, which again, would inevitably happen in some cases, you don't really support the evaluation?

If what you support is an increase, where merited, in benefits for some terminally ill people, then great - you're a top guy. But that's nothing like what you first admitted to. You admitted to supporting the process of evaluation which would have varying outcomes. Increases and decreases, inevitably.

So, if you realised that how you stated your intention was incorrect, cool - be a man and admit it. I'll think better if you for it. But if you want to obstinately labour the point by shifting the goalposts then I'll continue to point and laugh.

[welshbairn]

The Tories have stopped tens of thousands of disability benefits only to have a huge percentage reinstated on appeal, many terminally ill a bit too late. Oaksoft approves.

[Wee Willie]

The Tories have stopped tens of thousands of disability benefits only to have a huge percentage reinstated on appeal, many terminally ill a bit too late. Oaksoft approves.

Yet c**ts still vote for them.

[Mr Heliums]

Why would ANY terminally ill people ever have their benefits cut?

 

Yeah, who could possibly do that?

[milhouse]

Talking about "classes" is really dull, and surely out of date now. It's a strange UK obsession.

You either work or you don't.

[Shades75]

Maybe if you calmed down and stopped reacting like a twat you wouldnt have misunderstood my point leading to this absolute clusterfuck of a series of posts of yours. I notice you STILL claim i want to see terminally ill being having their benefits cut without having the intelligence to simply post where i made that claim.

I will save you the effort. You will not find me posting that disabled people or terminally ill people should have their benefits cut. I defended the idea of a process of evaluation to ensure that their payments were appropriate. I specifically talked about payments INCREASING should conditions for them get worse and that only an evaluation process would be able to catch that.

See the above.

You can dress "evaluation" up any way you want. As soon as you start to evaluate how terminally ill someone is, and whether they are entitled to the benefits they recieve and even, indeed, if your intention is to seek to increase said benefits then some, as always, will slip through the net. There is a clear example of this a few posts up.

So, again as you seem to be hard of thinking, if you support the evaluation of terminally ill patients, you cannot deny the fact that some terminally ill patients will have their benefits cut.

If you support the evaluation process you must accept that all available outcomes will happen.

So, you support the process and the idea that some terminally ill patients will have their benefits cut

I'm done with this now. I'm just repeating myself over and over and you'll continue to deny the eye-watteringly obvious.

By all means have the last word - see how much more of a c**t you can make of yourself.

[Fide]

Unsurprising, yet sad to see Oaksoft STILL making a c**t of himself on this subject and STILL having to be schooled.