The Conservative and Unionist Party.

[thisal]

Not sure it matters what system we use, it will favour the Tories and labour. Hard not to favour two parties that gain the best part of 70% of the vote.

The only way it will ever change is if minor parties demand it next time there is a hung parliament or if Labour get in with a leader like Alan Johnson who loves AV+

You mean like 2011. When the LibDems sold their soul for it. Lost the referendum and very nearly their party.

[Mr Bairn]

You mean like 2011. When the LibDems sold their soul for it. Lost the referendum and very nearly their party.

Their two mistakes were going for AV over a proportional system and asking for a referendum rather than just asking for the system to be changed.

[thisal]

Their two mistakes were going for AV over a proportional system and asking for a referendum rather than just asking for the system to be changed.

Their biggest mistake was going into Government with the Tories.

[Mr Bairn]

Their biggest mistake was going into Government with the Tories.

What do you think Nick clegg should have done?

[welshbairn]

Their two mistakes were going for AV over a proportional system and asking for a referendum rather than just asking for the system to be changed.

 

The third mistake was running the weakest, most apathetic campaign ever. That's what wrote them off as a party for me, if you're going to sell your soul be a bit professional about it and get a decent price.

[renton]

What do you think Nick clegg should have done?

 

Confidence and supply. Government doesn't topple, budgets pass, market panic gets suitably quelled. Clegg saw his name in lights and holed his party below the waterline for a ministerial driver.

[Mr Bairn]

Confidence and supply. Government doesn't topple, budgets pass, market panic gets suitably quelled. Clegg saw his name in lights and holed his party below the waterline for a ministerial driver.

The thing with supply-and-demand is that you don't get up front concessions on your own manifesto or ministerial positions, I'd have preferred a minority government but I understand why they opted for a more formal arrangement.

The other option would have been forming a leftist alliance with Labour, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens, the SDLP and the Alliance party to immediately change the voting system to AV+ and then call a second election.

[thisal]

What do you think Nick clegg should have done?

I don't know about Nick Clegg, maybe it suited him to have his 5 years in the limelight. But the LibDem should have tried to make a coalition with parties that where closer to their own manifesto. Rather than jump into bed with the Tories just for the sake of being in Government.

[renton]

The thing with supply-and-demand is that you don't get up front concessions on your own manifesto or ministerial positions, I'd have preferred a minority government but I understand why they opted for a more formal arrangement.

The other option would have been forming a leftist alliance with Labour, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens, the SDLP and the Alliance party to immediately change the voting system to AV+ and then call a second election.

 

Aye, but the Lib Dems didn't need to - they were over reaching themselves. Their reputation would've been much enhanced by a principled stand on things like tuition fees and welfare, and making a stand over the progressive tax system that should have gone alongside the PA. Instead they sold the house over a referendum on reforming the voting system and the Lords, torpedoing the former becuase they chose a system that was less about making the whole thing fairer and more about maximising the number of lib dems and fucking the latter by coming up with an utterly bizzare long term tenure shceme that a vengful Labour party was always going to to sit on.

[welshbairn]

I don't know about Nick Clegg, maybe it suited him to have his 5 years in the limelight. But the LibDem should have tried to make a coalition with parties that where closer to their own manifesto. Rather than jump into bed with the Tories just for the sake of being in Government.

 

It would have been equally ruinous to have propped up an unpopular and past its sell by date Labour government.

[Granny Danger]

Their biggest mistake was going into Government with the Tories.

Anybody that doesn't realise that by now is either an idiot or a troll.

Or both.

The late Charles Kennedy warned them but Clegg was too desperate to get into the limelight.

The level of tactical naivety is on a par with Labour's involvement in Bitter Together.

[Mr Bairn]

There's almost no chance they could have propped up Labour so their only other option was to sit and throw shit at the wall and force another election which would have given the Tories an outright majority

[Gordon EF]

Another plastic lefty. Seriously since when did being left wing mean "look down on others who dont agree with you and talk to them like shit"?

This socialist guff is all just mouth from you guys isnt it?

You just use socialism as a prop to air your grievances with the world and as a stick to beat others with.

 

I'm not a socialist and have never claimed to be.

[thisal]

There's almost no chance they could have propped up Labour so their only other option was to sit and throw shit at the wall and force another election which would have given the Tories an outright majority

Even that would have left them in a far better position at the 2015 election.

[Mr Bairn]

Even that would have left them in a far better position at the 2015 election.

 

 

Erm, noooo. They'd basically still have the same number of seats. Better to actually get their manifesto through then combust than sit in 3rd place and permanently throw shit at the wall never getting anything done.

[thisal]

Erm, noooo. They'd basically still have the same number of seats. Better to actually get their manifesto through then combust than sit in 3rd place and permanently throw shit at the wall never getting anything done.

But they didn't get anything worthwhile from their manifesto through. They have fucked themselves with the electorate to prop up a minority Tory Government for 4 years.

[Ad Lib]

But they didn't get anything worthwhile from their manifesto through. They have fucked themselves with the electorate to prop up a minority Tory Government for 4 years.

Absolute nonsense:

1. End to child detention at Dungavel

2. ID cards scrapped and Snoopers Charter blocked (latter now being introduced unilaterally)

3. Income tax drastically cut for the low and middle paid (most tax cuts been to the high paid since)

4. Human Rights Act protected (since seen attempts to introduce British Bill of Rights)

5. Childcare substantially expanded (never a Tory priority)

6. Pensions triple lock introduced

7. Forced a Tory led government to introduce equal marriage legislation (unthinkable even 10 years ago)

8. Protected green energy investment (since cut in our absence)

9. Shared parental leave introduced and strengthened flexible working rights

10. Protected the foreign aid budget at a floor of 0.7% of GDP, something the Tories would have faced significant backbench opposition over governing alone.

11. Secured an inquiry into extraordinary rendition

12. Abolished the ContactPoint database that was a massive violation of the privacy of children and got DNA of innocent people removed from the English and Welsh police database

13. Increased capital gains tax for high rate payers to 28% from 18% (like f**k would the Tories do that alone)

14. Massively liberalised the rules around how people can use their pension savings by abolishing the requirement to purchase an annuity

15. Raised more money in tax from a bank levy than the Labour bankers bonus tax

16. The pupil premium to focus extra education cash at schools with the most disadvantaged kids

17. Increased resources available to mental health in the NHS

But yeah, sure, we achieved nothing.

Sakes.

[Mr Bairn]

Ad Lib just cooked up a steaming telt-casserole and served it to his fellow Jag

[Ad Lib]

Ad Lib just cooked up a steaming telt-casserole and served it to his fellow Jag

Shut up.

[doulikefish]

Absolute nonsense:

1. End to child detention at Dungavel

2. ID cards scrapped and Snoopers Charter blocked (latter now being introduced unilaterally)

3. Income tax drastically cut for the low and middle paid (most tax cuts been to the high paid since)

4. Human Rights Act protected (since seen attempts to introduce British Bill of Rights)

5. Childcare substantially expanded (never a Tory priority)

6. Pensions triple lock introduced

7. Forced a Tory led government to introduce equal marriage legislation (unthinkable even 10 years ago)

8. Protected green energy investment (since cut in our absence)

9. Shared parental leave introduced and strengthened flexible working rights

10. Protected the foreign aid budget at a floor of 0.7% of GDP, something the Tories would have faced significant backbench opposition over governing alone.

11. Secured an inquiry into extraordinary rendition

12. Abolished the ContactPoint database that was a massive violation of the privacy of children and got DNA of innocent people removed from the English and Welsh police database

13. Increased capital gains tax for high rate payers to 28% from 18% (like f**k would the Tories do that alone)

14. Massively liberalised the rules around how people can use their pension savings by abolishing the requirement to purchase an annuity

15. Raised more money in tax from a bank levy than the Labour bankers bonus tax

16. The pupil premium to focus extra education cash at schools with the most disadvantaged kids

17. Increased resources available to mental health in the NHS

But yeah, sure, we achieved nothing.

Sakes.

Thats magic but the only thing it will be remembered for is student fees lol