Offensive Behaviour at Football Act cave in.

[craigkillie]

4 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

This is like Tam Cowan insisting on calling an ice cream a black man cos that's what it was called when he was wee.

I'm not familiar with that term, but if there's no racial connotation attached then it's not racist. Again, as I have said several times in this thread, I would probably avoid the term just in case someone misinterprets it, but that's not the same as it being racist.

 

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

You can make the argument that it wasn’t meant to be racist when originally sung but anyone still insisting that it’s totally fine to sing it in 2019 is suspect.

 

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

I worked with folk in the east end of Glasgow who still said it. When I pointed out the optics of calling someone “a black b*****d” regardless of their ethnicity weren’t great they packed it in. You would hope the deepest darkest parts of Ayrshire would catch up.

 

If it wasn't racist when it was initially sung, and it is still being sung in the same context, then it still isn't racist.

The "optics" of the phrase may be questionable given that it could be racist in a different context, and as I have said repeatedly, I don't use the term for that reason. However, the phrase in the context being described does not discriminate against anyone based on their actual or perceived race.

[I'm Brian]

7 hours ago, virginton said:

Ayrshire is barely entering the 1950s tbf. 

Still centuries ahead of Greenock mind.

 

 

Killie fans still call us "Darkies" I for one am not offended.

Like others I haven't chanted it in many a year, and do cringe every time I hear it, but only because I know the reaction it causes. 

I still call a thing you write on with chalk, a "blackboard" Does that make me a racist?

[Dee Man]

1 hour ago, I'm Brian said:

Still centuries ahead of Greenock mind.

 

 

Killie fans still call us "Darkies" I for one am not offended.

Like others I haven't chanted it in many a year, and do cringe every time I hear it, but only because I know the reaction it causes. 

I still call a thing you write on with chalk, a "blackboard" Does that make me a racist?

Gr8 arguments here. 

[Killie87]

The term "black b*****ds" is still used frequently down here in reference to someone being  unhygienic, that being said im not a great fan of it being sung and also the "darkies" chat is woeful,

First thing came to mind when reading this thread was the video on youtube with the east fife fans singing a song about cowdenbeath, made the news, got on they think it is all over, now its outdated.

"black b*****ds" "dirty arab b*****ds" "orange b*****ds" and then all the sectarian shite as well needs to get into the sea.

 

 

 

 

 

[DrewDon]

These days, if you say you're writing on a blackboard, you get arrested and thrown in jail. 

[NotThePars]

If it wasn't racist when it was initially sung, and it is still being sung in the same context, then it still isn't racist.
The "optics" of the phrase may be questionable given that it could be racist in a different context, and as I have said repeatedly, I don't use the term for that reason. However, the phrase in the context being described does not discriminate against anyone based on their actual or perceived race.

Out of interest if you were at a game with someone who the song could be misinterpreted as being aimed at, what would you do?

[craigkillie]

There's a definite Da vs woke millennial schism opening up in this thread isn't there.

There's a definite schism between people who understanding the nuance of an argument and people who don't.

There are two issues here:

1) Should people continue singing/using the phrase?

2) Is the phrase racist in that context?

I am purely arguing point 2 here, that it is clearly not racist. However, I have already said that I don't think people should sing it because it may be misinterpreted as racist.

Being woke doesn't (or shouldn't) mean driving a bulldozer through every argument without any critical thought. I'm your typical bleeding heart liberal lefty, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just label everything as racist regardless of context.

[Marshmallo]

If you say you're English now they arrest you and put you in jail. Gone to the dogs this country has. 

 

I don't understand why anyone would think it's worthwhile arguing in favour of this. Just use a different word. 

[Dee Man]

My mate broke his leg falling down what we used to refer to as 'manhole'. When he said this to the police in his report he was immediately arrested and ended up getting life with no chance of parole. 

[BawWatchin]

16 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Reading some of your posts on here make me wish my mother had been.

The term was entirely innocent, with absolutely no connections to racism.

Perhaps not. But it suggests that being black is associated with being dirty and although that is true in the case of white people. There are people out there who are black, not because they're dirty, but because they're black.

[AUFC90]

I’ve answered the same question multiple times throughout the thread, mate. 

Ehm....no you haven't. I'll ask again. In what way is calling a white person from say Shortless, who's house is a shit hole and hasn't washed in weeks, a black b*****d racist ?

[AUFC90]

Its a term used in places such as Ayrshire long before black Ayr and Kilmarnock fans, long before the song etc. He's still no answered the question. I would suggest than any black Ayr or Killie fan won't find it racist as they'll know exactly what it means.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Dee Man said:

My mate broke his leg falling down what we used to refer to as 'manhole'. When he said this to the police in his report he was immediately arrested and ended up getting life with no chance of parole. 

It’s a pity it was your mate and wasn’t you.

[AUFC90]

What is your question? Why using black as a derogatory term to white people is racist? 

The question is a few posts up and you've still no answered. Why is calling a white person black to mean they're unhygienic, a saying that's been about for as long as anyone can remember, racist ? You've already seen its in the urban slang dictionary above manky and clatty. It's not like it's something thats been made up recently or in way comparison to a black person.

[NotThePars]

The question is a few posts up and you've still no answered. Why is calling a white person black to mean they're unhygienic, a saying that's been about for as long as anyone can remember, racist ? You've already seen its in the urban slang dictionary above manky and clatty. It's not like it's something thats been made up recently or in way comparison to a black person.

Why are you still persisting in using it when the vast majority of people take “black b*****d” to mean something racist. Are there no possible alternatives which don’t give cover to racists or allow for a confusion between the two?

[AUFC90]

Why are you still persisting in using it when the vast majority of people take “black b*****d” to mean something racist. Are there no possible alternatives which don’t give cover to racists or allow for a confusion between the two?

I'm no insisting on using anything. I'm insisting it's not racist.

[AUFC90]

Chinky is in the Urban dictionary to mean ‘Chinese food,’ is that not racist either? 

Words and phrases change, black b*****d is a phrase that has been used for decades to victimise black people, it’s therefore racist. 

In the same way that ‘gay,’ can be said to mean someone or something is pathetic without it being used to mean they are homosexual, yet still obviously be homophobic, as it implies homosexuals are pathetic. Using ‘black,’ to call someone dirty, implies that black people are dirty. 

Just condemn your fans for using it and move on. 

It's not racist when used in the context of Chinese food no

 

Doesn't gay mean happy ? And in used in that context isn't homophobic either. Try again.

 

[AUFC90]

Idiot found. 

Correct you are the idiot. Just because you've made up that using the term black b*****d in the context I have said about is implying that black people are dirty doesn't mean it's true.

[Marshmallo]

11 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

It's not racist when used in the context of Chinese food 

 

And so ends this discussion 

[Jeff Venom]

 

Why are you still persisting in using it when the vast majority of people take “black b*****d” to mean something racist. Are there no possible alternatives which don’t give cover to racists or allow for a confusion between the two?

You are of course right here ntp, I don't think anyone is arguing that the song shouldn't just be binned or creatively changed (well not on here anyway).

 

I'm siding with Craigkillie here - I don't think it's too hard to understand that at it's inception, a long time ago, it was a song using colloquialisms, rightly or wrongly. Could the word black have been used specifically because comparing someone dirty and unwashed was as though they were black skinned and therefore beneath the singer? Possibly? I don't know, I certainly haven't ever heard of that being the case.

 

Today though, could really be doing with just getting it to f**k or changed.