Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Desp]

If the manager doesn't change the style of play, then we're going to have the same conversations every couple of months when we go through a poor run. 

A massive part of the criticism, for me, is that we can see there's a potentially decent team there, if they're allowed to play. Launching high balls for 90 minutes just doesn't cut it. 

[ropy]

Given I have no idea who would come in and replace him I have no real interest in GA moving on.  
 

I have romantic thoughts that a year in the Championship might be fun but realise it would more likely be a slippery slope.  Alexander has prevented that scenario which is largely his remit.  Top six is probably him exceeding his objectives.

We are now in a new phase of the league, I will be interested whether there is a new approach for the last 5 games.

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

Hibs were the only other team who got within 14 points of Alexander’s total in 2021.  

While I've shared my feelings on Alexander plenty; while this is fair, it also feels like a bit of a missed opportunity (also discounts Hearts who absolutely thumped everyone else this season).

Our best league positions were when we made hay while the sun shone. With Aberdeen being a shambles, Hibernian signing owl handling motivational speakers, United being..so so at best, and hearts arriving back in the league, and group stage European football to play for, it's an incredible opportunity. 

In reality, have we achieved what we should? Yeah. 

Was it wildly frustrating in doing so? Also yeah.

Could and should we have made a decent fist of third? Yeah, I think so tbh.

[ZX1886]

All the questions about why we have been shit since the winter break. And it seems obvious that we lost Tony Watt and didn't properly replace him.
It is that simple.

In a way, if Tony hadn’t got clattered by Alnwick, getting him suspended against us and instead having some Aaron Chapman tribute in goals then would we have made top 6.

[ropy]

PCA Lamie and PCA O’Hara were two of our top performers yesterday, would PCA Watt have been a dead duck?

[Handsome_Devil]

5 minutes ago, ropy said:

PCA Lamie and PCA O’Hara were two of our top performers yesterday, would PCA Watt have been a dead duck?

We'll never know but on the basis of his career prior to FP and reported relationship with GA, I'm happy to trust the manager on this one and say quack yes.

[Kapowzer]

Good points from both @Casagolda and @Handsome Devil however I think we also have to look outside our club to fully comment on Alexander. If you look at the league table for the 3rd round of fixtures and remove the OF and Hearts:

Ross County put on remarkable numbers, outstripping our 17 from the second round and certainly the form team going into the post split. 2 teams with much bigger budgets than us have the same record during this period marked by them punting underperforming managers and replacing them with new guys unable to stem the tide and get a new guy bump.

Looking at that table and over the whole season to date, Alexander has been seriously helped by a dearth of any real quality in this league. Teams have moved around the midtable in a piecemeal fashion, with little or no momentum outside Ross County of late and have pretty much cancelled each other out. That's how the worst record in the league over the past round has allowed us to maintain top 6 by a bawhair.

Shipping 20 goals is made worse that our Ibrox visit was a net zero affair. We just repeatedly have had to come from behind to salvage a point at best and that repeatedly has not been addressed.

Alexanders season can be summed up by the following breakdown:

• Overall, minimum 80% eye watering football
• 12 games of nicking a goal and parking the bus
• 8 of more retention and at times some not too bad stuff - b*****d lured us into thinking he had things clicking
• 13 games of deciding players X, Y and Z were culpable for issues in previous game
• Drop X, play Y out of position and stick with Z for no discernable reason in the next, oh and let's give up on football and hoof it
• Board - Publically looking for 10th or better, privately with summer transfer dealings expecting 6th or better......... target and contentment achieved even if they've hated watching it at times too.

Where we finished the 2021, our tally was flattering, probably got some karmic retribution for that since.

Dundee United have been very hard to beat. Playing both County and United away makes me think we may be very lucky to get 2 from 15. Of course now we'll inexplicably beat Hearts at home and get a point off one of the OF now I've said that. We need to have a few games where we play to our potential with more on song than not, but we've not seen that in a long time.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Kapowzer

[Lobby Dossar]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

We are now in a new phase of the league, I will be interested whether there is a new approach for the last 5 games.

Safe from relegation …… so over the next 5 games got to be looking at next season. Might not be universally popular on her but Lamie and O’Hara are ofski so should they be playing ?? Also ideally this is the time for Tierney to be playing 70/80 minutes from the start to get him up to speed for next season. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I've probably a bit of a brass neck given I would happily have had him hunted a few weeks ago but I do think we've been particularly unlucky in a lot of games since January. That's not to say Alexander hasn't exacerbated it by making really weird decisions but whether it's Calum Hendry and Dylan Levitt scoring the best goals of their careers against us, SOD passing to the opposition, Donnelly and Bevis selling the jerseys against Hibs or refereeing decisions going against us, we really haven't had the rub of the green an awful lot until yesterday. 

During the winless run we took 4 points from the Hibs, St Mirren, Ross County x2, Aberdeen, United, Dundee and St Johnstone games. That's not to say we weren't shite for the most part but our performances in those games would probably have merited at least one or two wins 9 times out of 10 imo, which would have us practically sealed 4th already and Alexander fully vindicated. 

We obviously got lucky in a lot of games pre-Christmas, but a fucking ton of stuff has conspired against us since then. 

Edit- I realise I've worded it in a way that suggests our defenders being shite isn't our fault. It is, and the way Alexander sets a team up means your liable to mistakes costing you more. But it is hard to account for generally decent players doing daft things.

Edited April 10, 2022 by YassinMoutaouakil

[Kapowzer]

Should always be looking ahead but when each placing is worth what £130k which is a definite first team starter for us then I'd say the only time to experiment would be if we're mathematically unable to move attain a high league position (not from Feb to April Grezza). Let's not overlook the mini windfall of European football as I'd prefer to get humiliated by a pub team from Luxembourg than Airdrie again. It may also help with the summer recruitment as a carrot.

Thing for me is despite being here for next season I'd have Tierney in over Goss any day of the week, which doesn't affect those on PCA's.

[eliphas]

39 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Board - Publically looking for 10th or better, privately with summer transfer dealings expecting 6th or better......... target and contentment achieved even if they've hated watching it at times too.

Speaking to a board member recently (prior to the last couple if games taking place yesterday) this is pretty much spot on BUT they are well aware of the fans views on the style of play at times. They are of course fans themselves too but with a different hat on it times. Results since turn of the year, style of play has been discussed and although the line was 'we are not a sacking club' it was also said everyone is under constant review. 

 

[Yorky]

2 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Alexander's done a tremendous job, it's there in black and white no matter what you think of the football. I think a fair amount of shine is taken off by the fact even competence since January would have us in Europe already but the fact remains he saved a sinking ship and got us into the top half.

The big but, however, is that managers and players are retained/recruited not on what they've done but what they might do next. We (and others on occasion) have seen that ignoring a collapse in the second half of the season can be hugely dangerous at the start of the next term and in the worst case can't be salvaged.

I think everyone can live with poor football when winning. Most of us, aware of our status in the food chain, will also tolerate poor football when losing if it seems to be building towards something or part of some kind of development plan.

Alexander's issue (or one of them, beyond the seemingly inexplicable selections and tactics at times) which complicates things is he is secretive to a pathological extent when it comes to the team. In fact, let's be honest, he tells lies in his pre-match pressers.

This might be out of tactical reasons or whatever but the effect on the fan base is almost entirely negative. It means there's no understanding for the decisions he makes, no semblance of philosophy for how he sees the team progressing and keeps him distant from the support.

Accordingly he gets judged on his own sole yardstick, winning games, and whether there is any confidence this will keep happening. And when we've won 1 in 13 in the league it's no wonder there is massive concern.

To repeat my previous view, I think Alexander could be a good manager for us if he is willing to adapt his approach slightly in a couple of areas. But there is little indication this is the case and with diminishing returns on the pitch (Jan-May has a much bigger bearing on what comes next than August-Dec 2021 and Jan-May 2021 has fallen off the radar almost completely) and folk seriously considering their ST renewals, anyone who isn't nervous about our immediate prospects has much tougher guts than me.

 

I get that the footballs not been great but I’d be surprised if most don’t renew their season tickets, the football under Robinson was no better and it had no effect on season ticket sales.

[ropy]

On 04/04/2022 at 10:11, ropy said:

We are sitting fifth.  Were we excellent the first half of the season, is everyone else shit?  Are all these things true?  

Storming up the form tables 

[Handsome_Devil]

48 minutes ago, Yorky said:

I get that the footballs not been great but I’d be surprised if most don’t renew their season tickets, the football under Robinson was no better and it had no effect on season ticket sales.

I certainly hope so but it's been mentioned on the forums by some it's a consideration. We're asking folk for X hundred for the first normal season in three years when money is tight.

Put it this way, the saving of an ST compared to paying in is basically wiped out if you decide to skip the OF games (a misery on and off the pitch) for a couple pints watching in the pub and think life will get in the way on one occasion out the other 15.

I think without a decent end to the campaign it'll be tighter than we'd like...hope I'm wrong.

[Gianfranco]

How the form tables.

[Handsome_Devil]

Does anyone know if our 40 points is the lowest tally to make sixth at the split?

['WellDel]

12 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I certainly hope so but it's been mentioned on the forums by some it's a consideration. We're asking folk for X hundred for the first normal season in three years when money is tight.

Put it this way, the saving of an ST compared to paying in is basically wiped out if you decide to skip the OF games (a misery on and off the pitch) for a couple pints watching in the pub and think life will get in the way on one occasion out the other 15.

I think without a decent end to the campaign it'll be tighter than we'd like...hope I'm wrong.

I'm one of those who have voiced their opinion/concern over renewing for next season. The football under previous managers has undoubtedly often been honking too, its the nature of the game at our level, but this season just feels different somehow and there also feels a disconnect between the club/manager and those in the stands. I don't think fluking top 6 has changed that.

Between work commitments and other factors like the usual occasions of weddings, holidays etc meaning missing games, I know before each season starts that buying a season ticket will result in me actually being a good bit worse off than just paying in to the games I can make.

My reasons for buying are twofold, in being simply my own (very) small contribution to the clubs planning (it's widely stated that season ticket income goes a long way in budgeting terms), and the fact that if I don't renew mine, then my old man probably won't renew his, and it's one of the few things he still loves and that we do together. He's even reached the same point of disenchantment now too, though. 

Committing a few hundred quid is more an emotional tie than simply the money, but having had extremely little enjoyment for the entirety of this season, I am honestly considering just chucking a few quid a month into the Society and wrapping it with the season book. The possibility then is slipping from occasional attendance to not at all if the product on the park remains the same. If there are even a couple of hundred folk thinking similarly, then the club will be concerned.

[Handsome_Devil]

I think that's the issue, most folk do it out of loyalty or obligation but eventually there comes a point where you just go nah...and the risk is that the intention to pay in most weeks goes too. How many PATG home fans would we have had at the United, Hibs and county home games for example?

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Does anyone know if our 40 points is the lowest tally to make sixth at the split?

Last season was 40 as well so this isn't some sort of freak season. The main difference is that there were as many teams in with a shout on the day of the split.

[ropy]

We were pushing forward towards the end and we had bodies in the box but was Mugabi actually deployed up there (again).  If so how early, I didn’t specifically notice it, I just thought it was all out attack.