Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

Without looking to take a kick at Alexander this post from Jay (formerly of this parish) on Twitter is quite the existential question - that's kind of worth unpacking.

It's often been brought up on here that style of football is way down our list of priorities and I don't think any of us would argue that like McGhee (the 2nd time) and Robinson before him, Alexander's brief was essentially 'keep us in the division' without any real thought towards style - and that's fine - peak Thunderdome was hunners of fun but expansive, free flowing fitba' it was not while the McGhee 'fluid front 3' of Moult, McDonald and Johnson was a step in the right direction after the Baraclough experiment but fell apart when one of them left and I'm guessing the budget was reduced when big Les Hutchison bailed early and we started dishing out contracts to folk simply because they were hanging around.

Arguably Alexanderball was how he felt was the best way of getting results and in absolute fairness to him it worked for an entire calendar year - even the run in from the 4-2 game against St Mirren showed a decent enough run of form. The fact that we came back after this summer doing exactly the same thing and from the looks of it actively making the players worse is where it really sinks in.

Alexander's appointment was (IMO) a continuation of the criteria that we had when Robinson got the job with the difference that Alexander seemingly had zero aspiration to consider changing things in the way that saw Robinson's 'Sexy Motherwell' flourish.

The disparity between budgets of half the league (Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen vs the rest) means that it's probably quite easy to look at our relative budget and come to the conclusion that playing pragmatic 'percentage' football gives you the best chance of getting results but the fact that Alexander signed a clutch of players who are actually actively good footballers - I've never really been on the we've a squad full of journeymen train - but decided to set them up in a way that didn't play to any of their strengths is as Jay says...wild.

For me, the squad Alexander left behind was unfinished but inside a month Hammell's showing that there's actually a functioning football team there. It feels relevant that Hammell was part of 2 of the handful of genuinely "good" footballing teams I've seen supporting Motherwell and to that point I hope he gets the resources and support to build on that.

Edited September 5, 2022 by capt_oats

[Swello]

17 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Regardless of results (which hopefully will come) how good is it to enjoy watching our team again?

There was a couple of times on Saturday that a good bit of play eventually broke down or the chance never really materialised where the whole ground started roaring them on as if to say "keep doing this" - and that hasn't been a common thing at Fir Park to say the least. Under GA, the main excitement was individual players (eg, Watt) doing something good - but to be applauding actual good team football for the first time in a while is brilliant.

How it works out during harder runs of games or over the course of the season remains to be seen but currently, the level of change in style of play is so dramatic, the only time I've seen it before was Malpas --> McGhee and that was over a close season.

12 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Alexander's appointment was (IMO) a continuation of the criteria that we had when Robinson got the job with the difference that Alexander seemingly had zero aspiration to consider changing things in the way that saw Robinson's 'Sexy Motherwell' flourish.

If Alexander and the club had shaken hands and gone their separate ways at the end of May, most would probably have shrugged and said "horrible to watch but job done" but the level of stubbornness and an inability to consider that his approach was wrong leading to the start of this season was the real hard one to swallow. When his most significant signing was a replacement for a right back that he'd fallen out with rather than players that would address the glaring problems we had - the writing was on the wall.

[Yorky]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Without looking to take a kick at Alexander this post from Jay (formerly of this parish) on Twitter is quite the existential question - that's kind of worth unpacking.

It's often been brought up on here that style of football is way down our list of priorities and I don't think any of us would argue that like McGhee (the 2nd time) and Robinson before him, Alexander's brief was essentially 'keep us in the division' without any real thought towards style - and that's fine - peak Thunderdome was hunners of fun but expansive, free flowing fitba' it was not while the McGhee 'fluid front 3' of Moult, McDonald and Johnson was a step in the right direction after the Baraclough experiment but fell apart when one of them left and I'm guessing the budget was reduced when big Les Hutchison bailed early and we started dishing out contracts to folk simply because they were hanging around.

Arguably Alexanderball was how he felt was the best way of getting results and in absolute fairness to him it worked for an entire calendar year - even the run in from the 4-2 game against St Mirren showed a decent enough run of form. The fact that we came back after this summer doing exactly the same thing and from the looks of it actively making the players worse is where it really sinks in.

Alexander's appointment was (IMO) a continuation of the criteria that we had when Robinson got the job with the difference that Alexander seemingly had zero aspiration to consider changing things in the way that saw Robinson's 'Sexy Motherwell' flourish.

The disparity between budgets of half the league (Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen vs the rest) means that it's probably quite easy to look at our relative budget and come to the conclusion that playing pragmatic 'percentage' football gives you the best chance of getting results but the fact that Alexander signed a clutch of players who are actually actively good footballers - I've never really been on the we've a squad full of journeymen train - but decided to set them up in a way that didn't play to any of their strengths is as Jay says...wild.

For me, the squad Alexander left behind was unfinished but inside a month Hammell's showing that there's actually a functioning football team there. It feels relevant that Hammell was part of 2 of the handful of genuinely "good" footballing teams I've seen supporting Motherwell and to that point I hope he gets the resources and support to build on that.

The thing I hated most about Alexander was trying to shut up shop and hang on when we scored a goal and seeing that as sustainable.

[Kapowzer]

The way Hammy's got them playing it's not beyond the realms of reality to envisage a redemption arc player of the month featuring Lamie, Goss, Efford and Morris by November.

I wouldn't bet my house on it, but is feasible.

[welldaft]

4 hours ago, Swello said:

If Alexander and the club had shaken hands and gone their separate ways at the end of May, most would probably have shrugged and said "horrible to watch but job done" but the level of stubbornness and an inability to consider that his approach was wrong leading to the start of this season was the real hard one to swallow. When his most significant signing was a replacement for a right back that he'd fallen out with rather than players that would address the glaring problems we had - the writing was on the wall.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and had we parted ways with Alexander end of last season it would be a win win for both parties. Assuming of course that we went ahead and appointed Hammell. There is a serious Q that if the season was not underway and we had more time to conduct a managerial search then we may well have gone in a different direction. Sliding doors and all that.

What I can say and have said on here before. The Board are made up of Motherwell fans. They 100% acknowledged (privately) and understood the fans view of the style and nature of Alexander ball a long time ago. And most definitely during our bad run. Securing top 6 was a bonus but had we lost all our games a parting of the ways would have probably taken place. The problem if you can call it that was securing European football. How do you part ways with a Manager having achieved that ? And then you have Alexander who is in a job and understandably wants to stay in a job and wants to experience European football. 

Losing to Sligo was a miserable experience home and away. But it may well turn out to be the best thing that has happened to Motherwell if we can keep this style of football and win more than we lose. The transformation has been fantastic. And watching players play to their potential and preferred style very enjoyable. As mentioned I guess the real test will come in October . 

Edited September 5, 2022 by welldaft

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I can sort of see the logic behind what Alexander was trying to do. It reminded of Robinson's "sign boys that are fast and/or strong then teach them how to play football" but in inverse, where we brought in a lot of technically decent players and tried to turn them into a brutally effective team.

It'll be interesting to see how Alexander does in his next few jobs after leaving us. I have questions about how effective his approach is when you don't have Tony Watt playing like a man possessed for half a season, but it also wouldn't surprise me if eventually everything clicks for him at e.g. Carlisle and he overachieves again, for a while anyway.

[CoF]

I'd love to see the media team doing a wholesome video of players going round the houses of the fans who crossed the line at Sligo and just kicking f**k out of them. 

[well fan for life]

17 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

It'll be interesting to see how Alexander does in his next few jobs after leaving us.

Willingly searching out highlights of an Alexander team sounds like a cry for help.

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

It'll be interesting to see how Alexander does in his next few jobs after leaving us. I have questions about how effective his approach is when you don't have Tony Watt playing like a man possessed for half a season, but it also wouldn't surprise me if eventually everything clicks for him at e.g. Carlisle and he overachieves again, for a while anyway.

I imagine a fourth consecutive sacking in such similar circumstances will be a red flag to many clubs and, given football people gossip like hell, the nature of the ending at FP won't help him either.

However, there's no doubting his track record at turning things round initially - I could well see him being unemployed until February/March time and coming in on a short-term deal to save a side from relegation, going on holiday, then being a fireman somewhere else the season after.

[Handsome_Devil]

2 hours ago, welldaft said:

Losing to Sligo was a miserable experience home and away. But it may well turn out to be the best thing that has happened to Motherwell if we can keep this style of football and win more than we lose. The transformation has been fantastic. And watching players play to their potential and preferred style very enjoyable. As mentioned I guess the real test will come in October . 

That's true but on the basis it's been a decade since I made a European game having been screwed by draws (Russia, Iceland) then corona, us effectively chucking a very pleasant and makeable junkit to Stavanger/Prague will need more than some aesthetically pleasing first halfs v Dundee United to make up for it!

[Neil86]

6.15pm kick off in the quarter final v Celtic, who on earth has came up with that. 

[Dosser1886]

2 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

6.15pm kick off in the quarter final v Celtic, who on earth has came up with that. 

I can hazard a guess.

[joewarkfanclub]

15 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

6.15pm kick off in the quarter final v Celtic, who on earth has came up with that. 

What an utterly shite kick off time for a game of football! Thanks Premier Sports!

[Phillips455]

Welp. Guess they really don't want people to attend this match. Couldn't they just have one on the Wednesday and one on the Thursday?

Surely atleast of them are not playing on the Wednesday the following week?

[CoF]

“Both Motherwell FC and Celtic FC raised concerns around the kick-off time based on the difficulties it will present to supporters wishing to attend the match,” CEO Alan Burrows said.

“Both clubs asked the broadcaster to consider having the two live matches, scheduled for that day, run simultaneously on different channels. However, we have been informed that this is not possible due to other contractual commitments and no other arrangement are possible.

“Whilst we an extremely keen to work with our broadcast partners and commercial sponsors to ensure they get maximum value for their investment in Scottish football, it’s a far from ideal scenario for fans of both clubs.

“We have been reassured that the circumstances surrounding this particular scheduling are extremely rare and unlikely to happen again.”

[rowsdower]

Did premier sports get the rights to the cup by forfeit, and now they're trying to kill it? Their coverage has been horrendous.

[joewarkfanclub]

18 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

Did premier sports get the rights to the cup by forfeit, and now they're trying to kill it? Their coverage has been horrendous.

They are only interested in the 2 live games for the uglies. They could easy have offered up a highlights package to the BBC so the rest of us could feed of the scraps as usual.

[Swello]

Fucking tinpot channel - total contempt for folk that go to games. (Other than the fact that we signed up for this shite) I don't blame the club....

<selfish content alert> There is literally zero chance of me making that kick off time - earliest I would get there would be about half time. I know I'm not typical as I don't live locally but that is possibly the shitest kick off time I can remember since the distant past with Dortmund at home and the Hibs game when they were knocking bits of Easter Rd down (and those games had the excuses of £750k tv money and no floodlights respectively).

Given the way Celtic are playing - an 80 mile round trip to see 45 minutes of a game that could well be dead by the time I got there is a total non-starter.

[gannonball]

43 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

They are only interested in the 2 live games for the uglies. They could easy have offered up a highlights package to the BBC so the rest of us could feed of the scraps as usual.

I doubt they are allowed to re-sell any package tbh.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, CoF said:

“Both Motherwell FC and Celtic FC raised concerns around the kick-off time based on the difficulties it will present to supporters wishing to attend the match,” CEO Alan Burrows said.

“Both clubs asked the broadcaster to consider having the two live matches, scheduled for that day, run simultaneously on different channels. However, we have been informed that this is not possible due to other contractual commitments and no other arrangement are possible.

“Whilst we an extremely keen to work with our broadcast partners and commercial sponsors to ensure they get maximum value for their investment in Scottish football, it’s a far from ideal scenario for fans of both clubs.

“We have been reassured that the circumstances surrounding this particular scheduling are extremely rare and unlikely to happen again.”

No other arrangements are possible, could they not have shown the Kilmarnock match that happens to be on the Tuesday?

This has was predicted at the weekend and caused by Sky moving our game with Rangers to the Sunday.

Edited September 5, 2022 by ropy